“Transwomen should be treated on female wards”

[Poppyred85]

So says Olivia Butterwoth, leader of Patient and Public Voice team at NHS England.
This is a screenshot from the GG Twitter feed linked to on another thread. I noticed the conversation while reading through it.
I don’t know how influential her role is but I find it worrying that the leader of a group representing patients thinks this. I’ve spent enough time working on NHS wards to know how important single sex wards are to women going through gynaecology procedures, miscarriages and early pregnancy complications.
I also know how vulnerable I felt when I was one of those patients and how much I appreciated that the other patients around me were women.
Once again this is about not just safety, but the privacy and dignity of women and our right to sometimes have spaces free from males or male bodies.

Yet again gender trumps sex. Has everyone forgotten their medical training?

This is terrifying.

Just why? Words fail me.

Really? We have a local community of self-IDed transwomen residing at the local sex offenders prison.

Am sure they would love to be in the female bay of the hospital.

She hasn't really thought this through, has she?

?

Either Male bodied people and female bodied people deserve privacy and dignity away from each other OR the NHS needs to house people in a way that best suits the needs of the system (consultants needing their patients in one single geographic area of the hospital).

Otherwise, what? Where is the purpose?

The gynae type issues are worrying but I am far more concerned about the elderly and frail. Dementia leaves you vulnerable but in either sex can also lead to loss of inhibition leading to aggressive sexual advances.

consultants needing their patients in one single geographic area of the hospital
I believe this is what used to happen. Consultants or specialties had there own ward of mixed sex patients. Following the decision to end mixed sex wards (at least where I have worked) there were still attempts to keep patients of one consultant or specialist on one ward but when there were no “male” or “female” beds left on that ward the male or female patient had to go onto another ward, even if there were beds of the opposite sex available on the “home” ward.

This is actually not surprising, although I am dismayed by the wholesale adoption of actual policies that ignore sex.
If anyone on Twitter reads this the question back needs to be whether Olivia Butterworth has done any impact assessment, whether her system is in compliance with the Equalities Act that protect the characteristic of SEX, given that the NHS is apparently committed to getting rid of mixed-sex spaces.
Ask her whether she thinks Christyl Knight (convicted paedophile) should be housed in a female bay. Nobody would necessarily know about their conviction beforehand. Ask her what the women might think, and whether they are allowed any objections to a male-bodied person in a space where they are vulnerable. Ask her how the nurse is supposed to explain the situation to a patient that doesn't speak English who raises a concern about being opposite someone she perceives as just another male.
I think we need to somehow get more of the actual stories of ordinary women as to why same-sex (not gender) spaces are important. The stats are on our side, we have plenty of real-life examples, but the narratives probably have to be stronger in order to be understood. We're working against years of introducing this very odd, very specific, very nonsensical ideology to powerful decision-makers under the guise of transsexual rights. It is actually a great thing that we have more acceptance of transsexuals. But the trans umbrella houses FAR more people than anyone actually seems aware of, and there is no checks or balances on who is transgender or what transitioning even means. What's happening is this activism genuinely seems intent on destroying female rights, safeguarding principles and freedom of speech regarding basic truths.

Oh dear.

I think, in summary of heresey's post, is that a lot of those who are standing for trans rights are like I was a couple of years ago - completely in the dark as to what I thought I was standing for.

So much crap was experienced by so many of those groups, we were almost 'pre-programmed' to stand up for those groups.

Once I saw the new definitions of the wide 'umbrella', once I watched Tara Hewitt laughingly (literally laughing whilst) teaching healthcare professionals that the trans definition included men who got off sexually by dressing in female clothes.

Once I saw the aggressive appropriation of the spaces and terminology of 'woman' by the more vocal trans lobby.

Once I realised that the 'T' was nothing like the 'LGB'.

Once I woke the fuck up.

Things changed.

I've been where Olivia is right now. (I think). And public participation is all about hearing the voices of the unheard, the unserved.

Which is all great, until you wake up and realise that one of those 'unheard' is not like the others. That it's been cannibalised by others with a very different agenda.

You can't go from 0 to 60 - many of us have already experienced the small steps that got us to 60 in the end.

If you're tweeting or interacting with Olivia, maybe remember that - many of us took many steps from where she is to where we are now.

Attempting to get them to '60' straight away is not easy, maybe try a little 10, 20, 30 steps first?

No

metro.co.uk/2018/01/14/woman-who-feared-men-accused-of-transphobia-after-objecting-to-hospital-room-with-trans-woman-7227597/

And for those who don't know the reference to Tara's talk (thank you to Rowan for perpetually reminding people of this, this is the one that finally 'peaked' me: (If you haven't got all the time in the world, start at 4.20)

And 5.40 if you really haven't got any time.

They pushed the definition and the 'ask' for support and understanding way past 'diverse groups'. And showed their hand about what they really want.

And don't watch until the end, if you're a woman, affected by breast cancer, or in fact anyone who cares about any person affected by breast cancer.

Oh gosh. Ive had lots of hospital admissions and you're so vulnerable in hospital. This is really horrible.

My mum often has reduced capacity and would be v vulnerable on an older peoples ward :(

I have watched that video of Tara Hewitt before. Where Tara admits openly in front of a group of female HCPs that the trans umbrella now encompasses people with penises who cross-dress for sexual kicks.

There was a poster on here only the other day who wrote about her horrifying experience on a closed psychiatric ward where she woke in the middle of the night to find a transwoman wanking (penis involved for the avoidance of doubt) right in front of her face.

But apparently NHS policy is going to be dictated by the super-woke, who are so open-minded their brains have fallen out.

If they want access to services that are appropriate to women then they can quite happily take my place for next month's mammogram.

Oh wait they are probably not 40 and have an increased chance of breast cancer.

I am more angry at the minimising of a lot of women's health issues*

*Yes I know men can get breast cancer, but they sure as heck can't get cervical (etc) cancer however they try to identify.

WTF is wrong with people? Have their brains all fallen out? People in hospital are vulnerable. They can't defend themselves. That's the last place on earth you should be forcing women to share spaces with males.

Nudging threadagain - Olivia is at Step One ' trans women are women'.

She won't get straight to 'transwomen are men, they may require a whole different space and oh, by the way, 'transwomen' is a shed load of definitions which include Miranda, Fionne, Debbie, Paris, Jane Fae, Paris Lees, Tara Hudson, Karen White' ...where're you're going to go Olivia' stage.

Many of us have had to go through many experiences to get there.

This is already happening
I work for an NHS trust and it is clearly in our equality and diversity training. No staff agree with it. NHS clinicians know what a man is and what a woman is.

I thought most wards were mixed now anyway

No staff agree with it
It seems that's very common with regards to this topic.

Actually the regulations would require trusts to report and be penalised for admitting pre operative trans women to female wards. The rules require patients to be cared for overnight in single sex accommodation not single gender. The exceptions are critical care, emergency units and recovery areas.
That said, I’m not sure it’s actually a huge problem and it might be a valid use of a side ward.

ARRRRGGGHHHH!!!

Starzig no they're not. Though more wards are single rooms now than was the case when the NHS did its last experiment with mixed wards in the early 90s. They were just getting rid of it under the cosh of public opinion when i joined in 1996.

Because fantasy: efficient use of resources and a cosy ward resembling normal life. Reality: 52 year old 6ft Frank with a knee replacement, detoxing from alcohol and sexually disinhibited, on the same 4 bed bay as 92 year old Mary in for a hip replacement, who weighs 35 kg and has moderate dementia.

Trans people will all pass much better when they are very elderly but it won't stop sexually mixed wards being a Bad Thing. I think mostly it's managed now by use of sude rooms, which would normally be for the infectious or the dying.

A lot of non specific surgical wards are mixed so horrific, uncomfortable places to stay. I just don't understand the point of even saying transwomen should be on female wards. They will be put where they need to be. You don't go on the gynae ward unless you are having gynae surgery which they won't be, so......