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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

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Original poster

So my daughter wanted a pamper party for her fifth birthday..

37 replies

LittleMissedTheSunshine · 25/09/2018 15:46

.. and my friend's son was one of the guests and got stuck right in with the glittery nail varnish, eye shadow and blusher.

And no one said this child is really a girl!

This is how it is supposed to be right.. that a boy can play with makeup or whatever and that's ok. Not.. oh he must be a girl in the wrong body.

Well done to my friend's son who is only 4 for not conforming to gender stereotypes and getting stuck right in there with the makeup and glitter, and even more well done to my friend for supporting this without questioning his 'gender identity' in any way shape or form.

See? It can be done....

OP posts:

dolorsit · 25/09/2018 16:47

Yes one of daughters friends has a younger brother, up until he was about 6 he was all about Eliza. That's because his sister was. They used him for make overs too.

Thankfully I'm in a working class area so wokeness hasn't spread.

Lettera · 25/09/2018 16:47

I look forward to a time when no girl wants a 'pamper party'.

dolorsit · 25/09/2018 16:50

In fact, 10 years ago Mumsnet was full of "my son loves his princess dress, pink tat and glitter" threads.

It used to annoy me because of course if your daughter was into this stuff then it was pink princess crap.

YeTalkShiteHen · 25/09/2018 16:52

DS2 got his nails painted sparkly at the last nursery fun day we had. Nobody batted an eyelid. DD didn’t want to, so she didn’t.

Hideandgo · 25/09/2018 16:54

You really don’t get it do you.

calpop · 25/09/2018 16:55

I look forward to a time when no girl wants a 'pamper party'.

Me too

Elephantinacravat · 25/09/2018 16:57

In fact, 10 years ago Mumsnet was full of "my son loves his princess dress, pink tat and glitter" threads.

Ha! I remember being a vair nice National Trust property place years ago and seeing a little boy with glittery wellies, a tutu and fairy wings and thinking 'I bet his mum is a mumsnetter'!

OP you are brave posting on Feminism Chat that your 5 year old daughter had a pamper party!

Original poster

LittleMissedTheSunshine · 25/09/2018 16:58

Not sure what it is I am supposed to get Hideandgo.

If it's that little girls shouldn't want pamper parties then bollocks to that, she's my daughter and if she wants one then she can have one.

OP posts:

Original poster

LittleMissedTheSunshine · 25/09/2018 17:01

Elephant I know!!!

But seriously my argument is that if a transwoman is all about a man who doesn't feel able to dress up as a laydee without saying he is a woman, isn't this where it all starts?

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Trilllllian · 25/09/2018 17:07

Let’s look at how far we’ve come, maybe. But we need to read the map really carefully to end up in the right place...

On a lighter note, when my now 12yo DS was a toddler one of my NCT friends told me she’d made sure she bought ‘army green’ crocs for her DC and not bright green because her DH thought they were ‘girly’ . I’d like to think I’d laugh at that and pull her up now rather than quietly seethe.

Original poster

LittleMissedTheSunshine · 25/09/2018 17:10

I don't really get the pamper party = bad thing. Can someone explain what's wrong with playing with glitter and blusher and stuff? Why is that antifeminist, particularly if boys are doing it too?

Personally I consider myself to be a feminist and I love dressing up and playing with makeup, I don't do it cos I feel I have to to be attractive to a man as most days DH sees me with none on at all and that's fine.

The day I get told it's anti-feminist to enjoy makeup is the day I stop being a feminist.

OP posts:

Now100 · 25/09/2018 18:45

Surely you aren't that insecure in your opinions? I think there is definitely a feminist argument to be made about girls and women being encouraged to waste lots of time on how they look, and you arguing the opposite isn't going to stop me being a feminist.

dolorsit · 25/09/2018 19:03

Oh I'm feeling all nostalgic now for the old make up wars.

No I'm not really

Lettera · 25/09/2018 19:05

I don't think 'pamper' parties are appropriate for children - well, for girls, as I don't suppose boys have them. It feels uncomfortably close to sexualisation.

calpop · 25/09/2018 19:23

My main objection is that it "others" the girls. They weren't 0 a thing when my older children were at school but in my youngest's class, from year 1, manybif the girls hived off and did "pamper parties" which the boys werent invited to. Many of the boys, my sonbincluded, woukdnhave loved tonhave gone! The boys continued having whole coass parties for awhile but then the paremts of the biysbthought sod this, im not paying for all these girls who dont invite my son and now, in year 3, its pamper parties for the girls and football/climbing etc parties for the boys. Inthink its sad, especially as my son is, or was, friendly with many of the girls.

It reinforces gender stereotypes imo because, no matter what people say on here, no y3/4 pamper party will include any boys in the class. As we all know, its rigid gender stereotyping thats got us to the position we are in today with the trans agenda and the harm being done to women. What happened to the parties we all had in the 70s and 80s where girls and boys were invited?

calpop · 25/09/2018 19:26

sorry about the typing!

It works boths ways of coyrse. Inhave a friend who says, if my son wants a football party, he'll have one! Which is fine of xourse, but invite the girls! Lots of girls like and play football.. Lots of boys dont like football.

LassWiADelicateAir · 25/09/2018 19:27

I think there is definitely a feminist argument to be made about girls and women being encouraged to waste lots of time on how they look

Is the logical extension of this that no women should ever spend time on anything related to how she looks? Or is there an acceptable amount of time?

For example it takes 90 minutes every 5 weeks to cut and colour my hair- is that a waste of time? Would it be acceptable if I only spent say 15 minutes getting it trimmed every 3 months?

Is it more acceptable because my husband doesn't like the particular style so it's done to please me rather than pleasing a man?

These are rhetorical questions as I could not care less whether what I'm doing is anti- feminist or not.

Original poster

LittleMissedTheSunshine · 25/09/2018 20:01

calpop how strange then that three boys were invited to my daughter's pamper party! One couldn't come, one preferred to play on the slides (twas at a play centre) but one joined in and loved it.

OP posts:

Original poster

LittleMissedTheSunshine · 25/09/2018 20:02

lass if i enjoy putting on make up, choosing make up, deciding colours etc is that a waste of time? If it's a chore, then I can maybe see your point but if I am enjoying the time spent doing it how is that a waste?

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Original poster

LittleMissedTheSunshine · 25/09/2018 20:05

sorry lass that last post was not meant for you but for Now100

OP posts:

LassWiADelicateAir · 25/09/2018 20:06

Lass if i enjoy putting on make up, choosing make up, deciding colours etc is that a waste of time? If it's a chore, then I can maybe see your point but if I am enjoying the time spent doing it how is that a waste?

I think you have missed my point - or missed the dripping sarcasm in it. I was referring to Now100's post about spending time on how one looks being a waste of time.

LassWiADelicateAir · 25/09/2018 20:07

LittleMissed Sorry too- x - posts!

Original poster

LittleMissedTheSunshine · 25/09/2018 20:08

Yeah I know sorry I put your name instead of lass100 no points missed!

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Original poster

LittleMissedTheSunshine · 25/09/2018 20:08

double x post!!

OP posts:

Original poster

LittleMissedTheSunshine · 25/09/2018 20:11

on the kids thing, I think it's normal that girls make friends with mainly girls by year 3 and boys with boys. So they will split off into sexes, party wise, whether they are doing traditionally boy activities, girl activities or gender-neutral.

My girl's party only really had boys invited as they are the children of my friends, as she has just started at school she doesn't really know many kids yet and hasn't had time to form her own friendship groups.

Admittedly I can't see many yr 3 boys voluntarily going to a pamper party but I don't think the sex segregation at that age is caused by the party theme, as it probably already exists.

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