Girlguiding Issue coming up Good Morning Britain

[WarmWishes]

About to be discussed 7.40am. Suzzanah Reeves & Piers Morgan

[Juells]

Bespin Tue 25-Sep-18 09:26:26

I really do want it to be the best for all girls

That doesn't include boys, no matter how you try to spin it.

[Redkeyboard]

Thanks Turf do you have a screenshot?

[Bespin]

Ereshkigal all your arguments are simply based on your perspective and none on any of the evidence or experiances of those who know exactly what the risks are. its a fixed view

[Ereshkigal]

It's not just about risk. It's about the privacy and dignity of women and girls in intimate situations. Which you support, right?

[GulagMilkMonitor]

VickyEadie no children are never inherently abusive we make them like that they are often victims of neglect and trauma or exposed to a society where sexualisation is becoming the norm I you wish to address abusive young poeple then I would start there And in the meantime throw out all safeguarding principles? Just because one element of an issue is important doesn’t mean other areas are not equally as pressing. What an incredibly naive and immature way to look at the world.

[TurfClub]

screenshots

[Redkeyboard]

I really do want it to be the best for all girls and an inclusive society that protect all young people is what will do that risk is managed on an individual basis and in young people is very complex

That won't be possible in an organisation like guides while it expels leaders who want to discuss managing a clear safeguarding risk.

[TimeLady]

There seems to be an assumption that teenage transgirls won't be sexually aroused in the presence of their female peers and are therefore no threat. How does that work? If the transgirl is heterosexual, why wouldn't their body experience the same involuntary arousal responses as their male peers?

[LemonJello]

Bespin you are demonstrating a clear lack of understanding with regards to safeguarding.

Girl Guides themselves state:

“we do allow volunteers’ [male] family members to attend residential events. Such requests are carefully considered by the local commissioner and as a part of the mandatory risk assessment or any trips.”

Even the shitshow that is Girl Guiding recognises the need for risk assessment with regards to the inclusion of male children.

The fact that you do not is worrying.

[Redkeyboard]

Thanks Turf.

[terryleather]

Being inclusive is not always fair or equitable and I'd argue that it's not necessarily a good in and of itself.

Allowing male bodies into female spaces may be inclusive but it compromises the safety, privacy and dignity of women and girls and in fact will lead to the exclusion of many of those females. It also means sex segregation no longer exists.

[GulagMilkMonitor]

And what if it isn’t a violent attack Bespin? What if a trans girl’s penis gets my 11yo DD pregnant because they are “lesbians” and letting nature take its course? What if the children believe they are having consensual sex on their guides trip?

I would decide to send my DD somewhere like GG precisely so this doesn’t happen. How would you explain to a parent, who hasn’t been told that male children are sharing a room or tent with their daughters, that their child is pregnant?

What about my friend who sends looked after children who have suffered childhood trauma at the hands of men, to GG as a way to boost their confidence? How do they deal with being in sleeping and washing quarters with a male child?

[Elephantinacravat]

I'm so fucking over girls and women being used to treat someone else's dysphoria or indulge someone else's exploration of their "gender identity". We should not have to be collateral damage..

This!

(My paragraphs are working again!)

[Ihaventgottimeforthis]

I absolutely can't bear Kate Hoey, I don't think she will do any favours in this debate in terms of winning over the majority.
She's one of Nigel Farage's cheerleaders and in my opinion is a disgrace as a Labour MP. I don't think she has either intelligence or integrity.

[howlsmovingcastle84]

It's also about parental consent Bespin.
"Hello Parent, is it alright if your daughter shares a tent with a boy?"
The parent is of course free to answer as they see fit-but they have the absolute right to have the question asked.

[redshoeblueshoe]

Ok. Transwomen Caitlin and everyone's favorite Women's officer - both lesbians
Nah I wouldn't feel safe sharing a tent with either of them

[iamawoman]

It's interesting isn't it trans 'girls' are girls narrative and they don't like their bodies so are unlikely to be engaging in any sexualized behaviour

1. it completely disregards that the rest of society doesn't view someone with a male body as female, and thus that actual girls may feel embarrassed, shamed, abused , if they are forced to undress, share a tent / dorm with someone they perceive as male
   
2. that a significant number of prominent trans women have fathered numerous children before they decided to allow their female persona become public

[Wrathofjurgenklop]

Bespin says, all girls have a right to privacy and dignity and you don't see trans girls as girls others do and therefore they are all entitled to this. any girl that did not respect that would be a issue
We see transgirls as ADOLESCENT BOYS.
Of course feminine adolescent boys should be treated with respect and dignity.
A scientific fact for you, they are still ADOLESCENT BOYS.

[Needmoresleep]

Bespin, no, no, no. Pedophiles and rapists, unfortunately, come from all walks of life and backgrounds. Yes some may have been abused themselves, but how would anyone know this. And there may be cultural contexts: early access to porn, boarding school, attitudes to women, but again how would anyone know this. All a small local group, like girl guides, can do is make sure their safeguarding procedures are sound. FWIW two groups DC were involved in (one a babysitting circle and one a sports group - one before and one after our time) had members convicted of serious sex offenses involving children: one father, one teenager. The two groups survived and there was no suggestion that any child within either, was harmed. But that is because both groups had practices that safeguarded children, the sports group having carefully followed Sport England advice and having achieve SE Clubmark status. I also heard a scary story from a leader of a Woodcraft Folk group, who applied for a DBS check for someone who was already a long time volunteer with a local Church's youth group. She got a phone call the next day from the police warning her that this person should be nowhere near children. Dangerous people are out there. Dangerous people will gravitate towards children. That is why robust safeguarding policies are encouraged. And why it is so hard to understand the Girl Guides. The best excuse I can think of is that the people running and advising the organisation, is that they have not been involved in the grass roots so dont understand the day to day issues, that local people working with safeguarding will come across.

[ILuvBirdsEye]

It's about having a single sex organisation and making it unisex by stealth. It's about ignoring all safeguarding rules because someone who shouldn't be there, is there.
It's about ignoring the dignity, privacy , feelings of young girls (like you are doing here bespin - but to their faces), it's about being deceitful, lying and disingenuous bastards. It's about conflating sex and gender and ignoring the sexed body and saying it has no affect on anything. Yeah, right

[ZuttZeVootEeVro]

IT is interesting that GG are not out there defending their position but leaving it up to trans activists who, with the best will in the world, do not have GirlGuiding at the heart of their motivations at all.

GG seems to have past their safeguilding responsibilities to any TRA who are motivated to speak up.

[Bespin]

Need more sleep I am. talking about children who abuse children not adults, adults do indeed have a number of factors infulanceing there behaviours.

[Elephantinacravat]

As an aside, I really hate the term 'trans girls'. I think it's because I searched the hashtag on twitter off the back of a thread on here and amongst other things came across videos blokes sticking actual coke cans up their bums. On Twitter! I needed a lot of brain bleach afterwards.

I know trans teenagers aren't necessarily going to be doing that, but there is obviously such a sexual element to the term, that I just can't get my head around using it in the context of the Girl Guides.

[LangCleg]

I really do want it to be the best for all girls and an inclusive society that protect all young people is what will do that risk is managed on an individual basis and in young people is very complex

Don't be disingenuous and use all girls to obfuscate that you're not talking about girls as in human females. That's manipulative, bespin, and highly inappropriate in a debate about safeguarding, one important plank of which is to protect minors from manipulative adults.

Very bad form from you.

[LemonJello]

Furthermore, Bespin, EHRC state:

Operating trans inclusive policies is permissible, provided that this is consistent with the rights of others and justifiable. The risk of sex discrimination against other members can be a relevant consideration in this context.

Where organisations decide to adopt trans inclusive policies and practices, the needs of all members or service users have to be considered in any particular case.

So each time a transgirl is to be included, this must be assessed against the rights and needs of the girls, and the risk of sex discrimination must be considered.

This is because transgirls are male and EHRC recognises there is a conflict of rights.