Writing workshop for women and what happens...

[TerfnTonic]

... say it with me... a man turns up! Why of course.

Cross post with OP. My sympathy. Is there scope in future workshops for more clearly defined rules, so if someone does turn up and try to pull a stunt like this they can be very firmly reminded of the rules about sharing your work (rather than waiting to the end to "announce" your genius to the group), about it being a safe, supportive environment. I.e. turn it round and make it about the interloper's specific behaviours being against the rules.

This is the thing, @AssassinatedBeauty. It's only by living a woman's life that you understand women's issues completely. I always think that if a transwoman really thought like a woman, they'd know that women wouldn't want them there at events like that.

Has anyone thought of contacting Mslexia for their thoughts on this? As the leading publication for women’s writing, I hope they have a view... FWIW, having been to many, and hosted many writers’ workshops, my experience is that it’s 50/50 male and female overall. I have never seen stereotypical trends for subjects from male or female. In contrast to the PP recently, the gruesome crime/thriller courses were more women than men, and food writing more men than women...

But Mslexia allow transwomen to enter their competitions, @PenguinRoar, based purely on self-identification.

Hollow talk, I am confused ( nothing unusual there) . Surely it is a against the law to offer something to women and some men but not all men? because gender identity is not a protected characteristic and therefore is not grounds for differential Treatment?

No, because they aren't men, are they? Haven't you read the memo? If they think they're a woman, they ARE a woman. And that means they can do whatever women can do, eg attend a women-only class. Even though they might have only decided they were a woman yesterday.

Didn't you see that person who won the Business Woman of the Year, when they'd worked as a man for decades?

@hollowtalk can you point me to where they have published that? Can’t see any change to comp rules etc. On their site.i will be unbelievably disappointed in they have ceded the floor on this.

ultimately slightly tedious lego movie franchise are male What are you on about? Whatever point you're trying to make is made so poorly that it's been lost on me, I'm afraid.

There was a man in the group I joined for women coming out as lesbians. Probably common now but this was in 1998.

@PenguinRoar I'm sure there was a thread about Mslexia recently, and their policy change on this.

Mslexia has cavedwww.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3371192-Mslexia-has-caved

@PenguinRoar - this is in the rules for the Mslexia Women's Fiction - Novella: You do not have to subscribe to Mslexia to be eligible, but you do have to identify as a woman.

Indeed...but surely that is illegal? Has the organisation involved been informed that they are discriminating against many men illegally once they accept self id ? I am sure that it is fear of litigation and an expectation that women won't actually take them to court that is behind some of the absurdities. That and misogyny

Flummoxed and deeply, deeply sad.thank you for letting me know.subscription cancelled

just because they say they are women they are not women in the eyes of the law without a certificate that they seem on the whole not to have , possibly because they don't have the mental illness that was traditionally associated with trans before it became demedicalised Now whilst asking for a certificate as proof in general is to be despised, if there was an obvious candidate, say someone who clearly doesn't meet the criteria because they change identity on a day by day basis, then it's is fairly obvious that legally they are still a man and so we then have a case that other men are being unfairly discriminated against ok it seems odd to argue for women's rights be arguing for men's rights, but we needed to side with Russia in ww2. Sorry the no paragraph bug hitting me here

It sounds like the way to have a women-only group is to advertise it as open to all, but with a relatively dull-sounding (I.e. domestic, ironing, stain removal etc) bias. Then once the women sign up, they get an email explaining that it's a cover for the awesome main event that's not boring at all. Of course there should also be a proper domesticity event to serve as a cover for any weirdos who actually enjoy that sort of thing there's a thought - do any transwomen ever say how they've always enjoyed cleaning, even as children? Rather odd how you still need a vagina to be naturally gifted at sweeping....

Contessas - that might work, specially the cover domesticity event (I remember a sci-fi book where the resistance set up as a fake religion, and screen out fifth columnists by accepting them as accolytes - but making them do all the really shitty things accolytes to a real religious community would have to do, like living on gruel and sleeping in monastic cells and getting up at 3.00am to pray until they get bored and go home.)

If you had a group to discuss your own cervixes, there would be complaints.

and keep his work as a surprise for us at the end! Isn't that when you remember you have to leave early/left the cooker on?

Contessa, Fermats - brilliant! Really

If you had a group to discuss your own cervixes, there would be complaints. Nah - Jess would be there with her impossible cervix

I'm old enough to remember the women's groups in the late 70s where women looked up their fanjos with a mirror... funny to think that would be outlawed now, not on any grounds except it's discriminatory!