World at One , radio 4 NOW - is this Agnes (Helen)??

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Programme just started - going to be talking to a guider kicked out for her view on trans?

Oh just seen from Agnes' thread that it is her and she has done an interview for them.

Yes she is posting on her thread about it

Intro is good.

Oh she's good. Well done Helen

Just started another thread about this. Go Helen!

And now Susie Green. FFS!!!!!

Transgirls are girls

Oh the suicide threats of course.

Helen was great. But it was disappointing that she wasn't allowed to challenge Susie's BS.

Girls have high rates of self-harm, depression and anxiety too. That never seems to get mentioned in these debates.

I wonder if Helen and Susie spoke separately because Susie refused to debate the issue?

Mermaids were rubbish! The spokesperson didn't address the issue at all.

All that was highlighted from the response was that one side had a greater threat than the other.

Let the battle commence.

Helen Watts. HERO.

Mermaids never address the issue, they just get it round to suicide, self-harm etc at the earliest opportunity. SG did mention at the end about protected characteristics and that one can't trump another, but Mark Mardel clearly isn't sufficiently on the ball to ask what happens in a situation like this where one PC is being expected to trump another. I was disappointed that only kids were discussed as I'm very worried about adult men posing as trans in order to access the girls.

"Girls have high rates of self-harm, depression and anxiety too. That never seems to get mentioned in these debates."

Who the fuck cares about old fashioned non brave non stunning girls?

They have had their chance and need to move over now.

I didn't hear this - considering Stephen Whittle is kicking off that it was wall to wall transphobia and the BBC should be burned at the stake for allowing it - was it that successfully GC? Or was it just that Helen was allowed a voice?

Just that Helen was allowed to TALK (she wasn't even unchallenged).

Both were allowed to speak. Helen was clear and calm. She responded well to several challenges. SG was given plenty of time to speak. I thought she was not challenged as much as Helen but thought it was a good example of a free debate. If trans activists are unhappy then it just shows how unfamiliar / unprepared they are to operate in a democratic society founded on free speech.

I think the reason they get so upset is because the Girl Guides policy really wakes parents up to the issues of trans activism and how their daughters might be impacted.

Ah, thank you. That would seem to confirm that to Whittle and his camp that this info re the Guides escaping into the public sphere and being reported in the press is a disaster.

Well, quite. Because on one hand you have women explaining their needs/reasserting their existence/promoting free speech, backing up their arguments using data and concrete examples. On the other hand you have people arguing that rapists should be moved to female prisons, teenage males should shower with females without parental consent, and that anyone who wants reasonable discussion is causing suicide. I do not care how many times you say "trans women are women," it does not make it true.

Then they should have thought of that before they went after GG and persuaded them to change to a single gender org even though there is no basis in law for that, and throw all safeguarding out the window :/I mean it was fucking obvious that parents would be less than keen, surely? Or is it that they are so immersed in the idea of women / girls as passive obedient objects that they didn't imagine it would be a problem?

Jess Bradley was not even sure there is such a thing as a "real woman." By extension, this means adult human females. So if we don't even exist, why would they consider our opinions?

The acknowledged plan has always been to achieve this very quietly, behind the backs of the general public, so by the time they realise and kick off about it it's a done deal and enshrined in law. The general public knowing about it is a disaster, it gives them time and information to do things like express a democratic opinion or to mention their rights, or to put opposing points of view to law makers. Whittle would much rather they didn't.