Girlguiding expels leaders who question trans policy

[AgnesBadenPowell]

Well, I guess I knew this was coming. Dissent will not be tolerated. Forget the safety concerns, the privacy and dignity issues, the managing out of gender non-confirming girls. What's really serious is one leader referring to another leader "a nightmare" in a private conversation.

Girl Guide leaders expelled for questioning trans policy

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/34139ed0-bea5-11e8-8d21-451ec1df6b83

Two Guide leaders who had raised safeguarding concerns about the organisation’s transgender policy have been expelled and had their units closed down.

Dozens of children face disappointment because there is no one else to run the units. The expelled leaders say they will take legal action against Girlguiding if their removals are upheld.

Helen Watts, one of 12 leaders who signed a letter to The Sunday Times in April asking for a review of the policy, was told on Friday that her membership was being terminated after more than 15 years with the Guides.

At least one other signatory, based in the northwest of England, was expelled. Documents seen by The Sunday Times suggest disciplinary investigations have been launched against at least five Guide leaders.

[Edited by MNHQ to remove copyright materiel]

The Queen! And I doubt she would be happy!

Does anyone know what the legal position is with volunteers? Obviously if the OP had been in a paid role, she'd have a very strong case, but I just don't know how it works with volunteers.

Not protected unfortunately.

One option would be to report to the Charity Commission. I don't know if this has already been done but if they are now dismissing volunteers for raising safeguarding issues that is new information.

I'm so sorry Helen. I know the GG meamt something to you. You have been treated very badly by them and it really is their loss. But it's your Guide members' loss too because those girls deserve to have their session run by someone who stands up for them and their needs. I bet they all valued you tremendously.

Our local GG just put a call out because they're desperate for volunteers. I'd love to have a go at doing it but just right now I can't support GG. I would be very surprised if the majority of parents didn't feel the way you do, if they knew what was happening.

I'm so sorry, Helen. You are doing the right thing.

Spotted this tactic on Twitter: mobile.twitter.com/cutlasslil/status/1043812121253957634 - parents go directly to your pack leaders rather than be fobbed off with the bland national response.

The thing is, that when issues like this threaten to destroy an established organisation there is almost never a climbdown from the "leaders". They have too much (face) to lose. So the best you can hope for is a quiet shelving of the issue and a quiet return to sensible safeguarding, and then subsequent years of mistrust.

The alternative would be a splinter group. New Guides, as it were.

Asking the "leadership" of GGUK how their patron would feel about a) a complete lack of safeguarding and b) dismantling a source of huge opportunity for girls that she has fond memories of may concentrate minds. Can't see the Queen being happy associated with this madness, and no way would I raise it with the Palace. They have an absolute horrror of scandal. But I would use it as a stick to beat GGHQ with.

Why shouldn't someone living as a girl take part in girlish activities?

I'd love someone to explain what living as a girl is in the context of a boy 'living as a girl'

To my mind being an adolescent female is all about dealing with periods, learning that you are going to be on receiving end of wolf-whistles and sexualised comments and maybe coersion and sexual assault. It's about learning you are a second class citizen and that 90% of your worth is based on how pretty and fuckable you are.

This is a Daily Mail article about a 17 year old British trans girl. I'll attach a photo of the individual concerned. Do they live as a girl in any way beyond reinforcing negative stereotypes? If so, I'd genuinely like to hear how.

The Queen is the patron, GG is governed by ROYAL CHARTER (which also means, interestingly that GG can be sued as a person and not an organisation)

Oh Agnes I’m so sorry

Your courage and integrity have been an inspiration to watch, I’m sadly not shocked at this outcome but I am absolutely fucking livid at GGHQ for their absolute refusal to even consider that there might be an issue with their ridiculous policy. Only girls though innit, why should they matter

Please, please let us know what we can do to help you. I will write to my MP and ask them to raise it in Parliament (hollow laugh) and I would be happy to donate to cover legal fees if needed. Hope you’ve got some lovely mates who are showering you with support, hugs and

Pretty sure I can hear BP spinning in his grave.

The hypocrisy of this twitter thread is astounding. Glad to see GG are getting a pasting in the replies.

twitter.com/Girlguiding/status/1043527857270652928

Pencils: "One option would be to report to the Charity Commission. I don't know if this has already been done but if they are now dismissing volunteers for raising safeguarding issues that is new information."

I think this is an excellent idea. The more people who do this, the better. The link again, for anyone who missed it:

forms.charitycommission.gov.uk/raising-concerns/

Does anyone know what the legal position is with volunteers?

I would not volunteer for any organisation with gaping safeguarding holes like this. Imagine how vulnerable you would be.

HMQ’s royal charter charities also have to have royal permission to change their charitable objects (ie: who the charity are legally registered to benefit ie girls and women in this case.)

GG UK need to explain how their reinterpretation of the meanings of ‘girls and women’ and kicking out of gender-non-conforming Guides, fits with their existing charitable objects,
or
They need to publicise the royal permission that GGUK have already had to change the GGUK legal remit to include ‘feminine’- identifying men and boys, and only to serve ‘feminine’- identifying’ girls and women. .

(I don’t think the latter scenario is very likely to have happened.)

Already been reported to Charity Commission who fobbed off FPFW yesterday, see twitter.

And chatty lion, yes that was all included in the letters to GG, EHRC, and CC.

This is awful

Yeps guides speak out

Well no don’t cos we don’t want to hear that you might not want to have a 14 year old boy sharing your tent . Shut up girls shut up girls

Rank rank hypocrisy

This is so fucked up. A good organisation should welcome questioning of their policies. Its an opportunity to reflect and learn. If there's no problem there's nothing to fear from robust questioning anyway. There is no place for ego in safeguarding.

I've a friend who, on appointment at new job in school, was told who to go to about safeguarding if she disagreed with her line manager, who to go to if she disagreed with her line manager's manager. Not "we are your bosses what we say goes now shut up".

Agnes thank you for all you have done and are still doing to fight for the rights of girls. It must be extremely stressful, I hope you have support irl. Echoing what others are saying I'm happy to contribute to any funding that supports this fight.

So sorry to hear agnes

Can I just say a massive thank you for speaking up for girls.

I have 2dds my oldest would benefit so much from a girl only space the only time she doesn't have to put up with boys is pe when it's just girls.

Cannot believe advice from furries adult babies domestic violence apologists and extreme porn advocates and paedophiles would still be listened to over women. Fucking joke.

Thank you. I am so disgusted for you.

Agnes I'm appalled at this development & extremely grateful for your brave & principled stance on this. I'm also willing to help fund any legal steps you are considering as I think it's unjust and extremely important to stand up to this. I'm with you 100%.

Thank you Agnes for your bravery and honesty. I'd happily leave either of my girls with you at any time.

To those talking of taking legal action, why would Agnes want to rejoin an organisation that has so betrayed her, the parents and the girls?

Time to put money and minds into a new movement that's run by women, good women like Agnes, for girls. Not boys who now have GG and the Scouts.

There are many ex guiders with knowledge and integrity and much goodwill here so fund the start up. Fair play for Girls has been suggested on twitter. It's time we all took action.

Cannot believe advice from furries adult babies domestic violence apologists and extreme porn advocates and paedophiles would still be listened to over women.

Has someone got a full list of the people who advised Girl Guides on their policy? Names I've seen so far are Pip "brave and stunning" Bunce, Jane "eggshell skulls" Fae and Aimee "Furries" Challenor. Anyone else?

Really sorry to hear this OP. I was a Guider for 20 years, currently on a break but after today that break will be permanent. You are entirely right to raise your concerns. In my workplace, I have worked with 3 transgender people. Two I had no issues with. Entirely respect their position and they are both willing to acknowledge peoples concerns and be sensitive. The other was clearly not genuine and after causing a lot of disruption at work over a prolonged period has not admitted he is male after all. That experience makes me sad that GG can't accept that their policies are entirely contradictory. Good luck to you in all that you do in the future. It is still, even today right to stick to principles and hold firm despite the painful outcome.

This is fucking disgraceful.

sorry type should be "has now admitted he is male after all".