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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Man in Dress listed as Top 100 FEMALE Executives

678 replies

CharlieWork · 20/09/2018 21:19

Aaaaaaaarrrggghhhh.

Looks like his maleness was has worked for him and he gets to be recognised as a top female too.

Just why?

Man in Dress listed as Top 100 FEMALE Executives
OP posts:
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21
Needmoresleep · 22/09/2018 12:16

No woman in the organisation will dare challenge him about anything, the organisation itself will never dare sack him for anything less than a full Nick Leeson.

Perhaps that is the answer. From late 40s onwards high earning City men start looking over their shoulder's and worry whether they will survive the next redundancy round, being fairly sure that if this happens they won't pick up another well paying job. And the worry that the nice Home Counties lifestyle will no longer be affordable.

How long has Bunce been wearing dresses to work?

R0wantrees · 22/09/2018 12:20

2015 Financial Times Article written by 'Pips Bunce'

'Mx matters as much as Lord, Prof, Ms and Mr
How companies choose to treat their trans employees affects moral and commercial success'
(extract)
"In August, the honorific Mx was added to the Oxford English Dictionary. It is used by men and women who do not wish their title to convey their gender and is similar to Ms, which is used by women who find it unnecessary for their title to indicate marital status. The term’s inclusion is the latest example of an increasing awareness of gender identity. Some banks and city councils have added Mx as an option on forms and the Swedish language recently added the gender-neutral “hen”. Meanwhile, Facebook offers 71 sexual orientation and gender markers and allows users to add their own.

So what is in a name and why should it matter? To many trans people (a wide range of individuals who do not see themselves in traditional gender terms) the use of correct names and pronouns is very important as this gesture signifies respect and understanding. We are quite comfortable respecting academics with titles such as Professor and Dr, aristocrats with Lord or Viscount, and those knighted by the Queen, and their wives, as Sir and Lady. We do this — in some cases, whether we agree or not — because the individual sees such honorifics as a fundamental part of who they are.

The LGBT community has so many labels that it is unsurprising some people find the subject of gender identity confusing, or even infuriating. There are some basic concepts to keep straight: sexuality is simply who a person is attracted to. Most people are either straight, gay or bisexual, although there are many others who define themselves differently. Gender identity and gender expression, meanwhile, are distinctly separate constructs." (Continues)

Gender expression, however, is an external presentation of gender. An individual may choose to present as male, female or androgynous for various stints of time. But generally, these people have no desire to change sex.

I, for example, consider myself as gender fluid or gender variant. I like to be Phil one day and Pippa another, using different forms of dress and make-up to do so. I do it at home and at work. I am straight, have been married for more than 20 years and have two children.

I understand that for some people it may be hard to accept. They argue that at almost every place of work we have to conform in one way or another. Indeed, gender expression still operates within some boundaries, such as dress code.

But there is a real value in allowing employees to bring their authentic selves to work, whether they be gender variant, gay, women, Sikh or simply eccentric. Companies are beginning to understand such openness increases employee engagement, discretionary effort and productivity while developing an inclusive culture within the workplace that benefits retention and recruitment." (continues)

www.ft.com/content/08f4b532-70c8-11e5-9b9e-690fdae72044

Photograph from article presumably illustrating how one stands differently to be photgraphed in a lift as a 'man' and a 'woman'?

Man in Dress listed as Top 100 FEMALE Executives
Ereshkigal · 22/09/2018 12:24

I always stand in the lift like that.

R0wantrees · 22/09/2018 12:24

Meanwhile, Facebook offers 71 sexual orientation and gender markers and allows users to add their own

Facebook were advised by Stephen Whittle (Press for Change) and Gendered Intelligence about the introduction of gender desciptors:

2014 Telgraph article, 'Facebook's 71 gender options come to UK users'

Facebook worked with UK groups Press for Change and Gendered Intelligence to add 21 new options to ensure the list best reflected the ways UK users may choose to describe themselves.

"Gender identities are complex and for many people, describing themselves as just a man or just a woman has always been inadequate," said Professor Stephen Whittle, vice-president at Press for Change. The European Court of Human Rights has upheld the right to develop our gender identity, as key to our personal autonomy.

"By challenging the gender binary, Facebook will finally allow thousands of people to describe themselves as they are now and it will allow future generation of kids to become truly comfortable in their own skins." (continues)

www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/facebook/10930654/Facebooks-71-gender-options-come-to-UK-users.html

Annandale · 22/09/2018 12:25

How the hell would i bring my gay self to work? Does he mean the being able to talk about 'my wife' and bring her to the Christmas party? I get that. But how else? I'm straight, so am ignorant about this, sorry.

Ereshkigal · 22/09/2018 12:27

So is he!

R0wantrees · 22/09/2018 12:27

Ereshkigal

I can only imagine standing like that if I needed the loo and was having to hold a lift for someone who is walking very slowly but for whatever good reason they need to be reassured that of course its fine to wait for them!

Needmoresleep · 22/09/2018 12:29

Ahhh the problem with "overchoice"

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overchoice

Ereshkigal · 22/09/2018 12:29

I always delicately place one leg in front of the other when I do it.

OvaHere · 22/09/2018 12:30

My authentic self is being able to wear big fluffy PJs and watch Netflix whilst eating chocolate. Can that be brought to work?

calpop · 22/09/2018 12:33

Perhaps that is the answer. From late 40s onwards high earning City men start looking over their shoulder's and worry whether they will survive the next redundancy round, being fairly sure that if this happens they won't pick up another well paying job. And the worry that the nice Home Counties lifestyle will no longer be affordable.

That's a damn good point. I mean he's made himself bullet proof hasnt he? He'll be at Credit Suisse now until they go under or until he retires. Or maybe leaves to take up a post at Mermaids or Stonewall. Clever man. He's changed his precarious position (as all middle aged IT Directors in FS are now) to one of unassailable. And all he had to do was look a bit of a tit in a dress twice a week. Oh, and throw a load of women under the bus.

TimeLady · 22/09/2018 12:34

Top comment

Unbelievable. How incredible insulting to women who work in finance

3555 upticks and counting

R0wantrees · 22/09/2018 12:35

Miranda Yardley comments:
"LGBT now involves vast amounts of money and part of the reason for this is men like Bunce. It is this money, from the banks and massive international organisations as well as money raised for the benefit of children’s charities that is being diverted to support the myth that men can become women, that transgender identity is innate and by filtering it through organisations like Mermaids, GIRES and Gendred Intelligence this has become the most dangerous attack on the rights and welfare of pre-homosexual and gender non-conforming children since forever." (continues)
mirandayardley.com/en/so-brave-so-stunning-pippa-bunce-the-transvestite-rebranded/

It is really noticeable how frequently boards of LGBT+ charities / organisations have representatives from the banking sector.

I have for a long time wondered why the charity Mermaids (dedicated to supporting children and their families) does not seem to have anyone with a background in child psychology/ education / health/ social care etc on their board of trustees and instead seems to have only those from business / finance backgrounds....

mermaidsuk.org.uk/mermaids-trustees.html

OvaHere · 22/09/2018 12:37

Throwing some shade on a photo in that DM article Grin

Pippa Bunce (middle) talking to Mastercard about the 'importance of authenticity'. The bank director claims to split his time 'fifty-fifty' between Pippa and Philip

R0wantrees · 22/09/2018 12:42

February 2018 thread:
'Why are Pippa Bunce and Bearded Alex not celebrated as pushing the boundaries of being a man?'

OP loveyouradvice wrote:
"Why aren't these two - both fully-intact men (yup, feel like Im talking like a racehorse breeder!) "pushing the boundaries of what it means to be a man"? Surely this is what they are actually doing... in preTrans-Wonderland?

As a feminist, this is something I would truly celebrate - even David Beckham in his skirt was something to celebrate....

Instead of which I feel invaded and minimalised.....

I genuinely DONT understand why we can't have a movement celebrating the wonderfulness of a wide range of how men present themselves....Nor why this argument has not been used by "people in power" whether powerful people (women probably!) in media, business, politics and other arenas....There are some fab strong intellectual successful women out there.... "
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3174800-Why-are-Pippa-Bunce-and-Bearded-Alex-not-celebrated-as-pushing-the-boundaries-of-being-a-man

Both Bunce and Drummond are Stonewall champions/advocates/advisors etc

Alex Drummond 'broadening the bandwidth of gender'

www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=Lj4V-Nme86U

FrankUnderwoodsWife · 22/09/2018 12:56

This is a massive own goal for Credit Suisse. (Slow handclap)
I work in finance and attended the FT summit and the women who commented on it (whispering as to not offend!) were horrified

R0wantrees · 22/09/2018 13:02

From the Daily Mail article, video with Bunce explains how they have educated people and colleagues demonstrate their education via the LGBY Ally program:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6195853/Credit-Suisse-boss-dresses-woman-slammed-appearing-100-women-list.html#v-7203912658637439011

Interesting to note Bunce quotes Oscar Wilde at the end of the clip, he is very quotable!

“Education is an admirable thing, but it is well to remember from time to time that nothing that is worth knowing can be taught.” – Oscar Wilde

“To love oneself is the beginning of a lifelong romance.”
– Oscar Wilde

“Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.”
– Oscar Wilde

“There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about.”
– Oscar Wilde

“Everything in the world is about sex except sex. Sex is about power.”
– Oscar Wilde

“Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.”
– Oscar Wilde

Datun · 22/09/2018 13:04

Here is Bunce talking about the ally program.

There are number of people supporting him.

This is where the whole deception on the different motivations for transitioning comes to the fore.

Although I disagree with India Willoughby in that no man can be a woman, I do understand the frustration of someone who has gender dysphoria looking at someone who is a self confessed cross dresser and pretending it's the same.

One is sexually motivated, the other isn't.

The fact that other people don't understand the distinction, either, frustrates the hell out of me.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6195853/Credit-Suisse-boss-dresses-woman-slammed-appearing-100-women-list.html#v-7203912658637439011

FermatsTheorem · 22/09/2018 13:04

Rowan I think I love you. What a fabulous set of quotes!

LangCleg · 22/09/2018 13:05

It is really noticeable how frequently boards of LGBT+ charities / organisations have representatives from the banking sector.

The corporatisation of the charity sector has thrown up so many problems, hasn't it? Not least this one.

Aeroflotgirl · 22/09/2018 13:05

How did this happen, I have no words. Male privilege at its best. He is a man, he is biologically Male, and has male genitals, an absolute disgrace. Do you think we can get a woman to be one of the Top Male executives then, hmmm I don't think so. I hate this society where everything goes, and woman's rights and struggles are trampled all over by misogenists.

ShotsFired · 22/09/2018 13:07

After I read this in the news, I was staring at my LinkedIn page, trying to write a post about how today would be a perfect day to name and honour some actual women in business I admire and look up to, and who missed out on this - and other awards and accolades - because of men like Bunce.

But I was so angry I typed and deleted sentence after sentence of near-gibberish and could not format a coherent post, which in itself was even more infuriating. I am sick to the back teeth of men doing womaning as a consolation prize.

Datun · 22/09/2018 13:08

Sorry Ro, I see you've already added that link of Philip talking. It's an eye-opener.

ShotsFired · 22/09/2018 13:09

Aeroflotgirl - What's that oft-quoted stat? Something about there being more men called John in the FTSE boards than the total number of women?

Sickening colonisation of the one thing they aren't handed on a plate, so they take it by force.