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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Guardian comments opportunity

112 replies

LambChopsMcGee · 18/09/2018 19:16

I'm sure this has been mentioned but Zoe Williams has done a piece on John McConnell's Mumsnet chat. She mentions the trans issue in passing.

Comments are open. And one says "what is it with Mumsnet and transphobia anyway?"

I'll see if I can link...

What is it with Mumsnet and transphobia, anyway?" discussion.theguardian.com/comment-permalink/120570800

Maybe we should tell them??

OP posts:
NotMeOhNo · 18/09/2018 23:22

Welcome. I used to love the Guardian. I am horrified by it now.

SPOFS · 18/09/2018 23:24

As a wide-eyed naive student, I loved the Guardian.

However, like the Lib Dems, they've become a shell of their former progressive selves. I now think they're one of the most misogynistic newspapers in the Uk, and that is saying something.

Procrastinator1 · 18/09/2018 23:36

ProbablyOnTopic
I was one of those deleted. I mentioned 85% plus of trans women retained their penis. I didn’t put it quite like that. The threat to women’s spaces. The sexual assault of women in prison by a trans women. Girl Guides and trans women in women’s sport.
If you are really interested in why some mumsnetters are concerned about this issue these threads are useful.
“Frequently asked questions I have noticed here” and “Break it down for me”
I can’t provide you with a clickable link at the moment, but they are both on the first page of this board.

Ereshkigal · 18/09/2018 23:46

As a wide-eyed naive student, I loved the Guardian.

I did. I loved Amnesty International too.

Badgerthebodger · 18/09/2018 23:59

@ProbablyOnTopic

Hello Smile welcome, always nice to have people come and join us. This is a great thread for a starter

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

If you have any questions give me a shout on PM

LightofaSilveryMoon · 19/09/2018 00:12

Speaking as a general lurker, it's really good sometimes when a goady person appears, casting sly aspersions, and also totally stupid assertions of baseless orthodoxy; and the women of FWR put them right. Oh yes.

The goady person has their arse well and truly handed to them on a plate! And so politely and clearly.

LightofaSilveryMoon · 19/09/2018 00:21

Oh, damn, I think it is the wrong thread for my previous response, Shall have to search for the correct one.

Sorry about that.

LightofaSilveryMoon · 19/09/2018 00:45

Guardian - I gave up on it a while ago after pointing out, in the comments on some article, that a transwoman could not speak for women, because, obviously......

Got put on the Guardian Naughty Step for that, and have not bothered getting off it.

Materialist · 19/09/2018 00:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

gendercritter · 19/09/2018 01:02

Welcome Probably. We are annoyingly rational here. Science and evidence and well-thought out analysis goes down very well annoyingly enough. Wink And please stick around - there are all sorts of people on here. I'm not a mum, for one (alas).

Charliethefeminist · 19/09/2018 02:31

'a transwoman could not speak for women'

The BBC believes that a trans non-female (is that allowed) can certainly speak for females. It considers that Debbie's contribution to a recent shirt film was sufficient to represent women's views. Probably because the BBC is fully signed up to Self ID and has been for years.

Coyoacan · 19/09/2018 04:04

Interesting to see the level of misogyny allowed on the Guardian, where they seem to believe that mumsnet is a combination of women who are bare-foot and pregnant in the kitchen and upper-class women with servants, with not a brain among us. All those comments were allowed to stand.

CrackpotsArePots · 19/09/2018 06:00

The Guardian deserves to go down the pan. Hopefully some of their columnists will get jobs elsewhere, but I won't mourn its passing. Also a reader for decades.

ShackUp · 19/09/2018 06:19

Hi probably, we debated over on the Graun last night.

Please can someone get probably a link to the primer? and a cuppa I don't know where it is!

ShackUp · 19/09/2018 06:37

Ah, sorry, I see primers have already been handed out! StarBrew

inquiquotiokixul · 19/09/2018 06:58

Hello and welcome @ProbablyOnTopic - I hope you stick around. Don't worry if you find you aren't fully in agreement with a prevailing opinion on a thread - polite and respectful disagreement is allowed here, unlike on other sites.

I think this thread has tipped me over the edge and I no longer want to give the guardian any more money. But do any non-misogynistic news outlets exist?

Blackberrypiesforbreakfast · 19/09/2018 07:06

Another former Guardian reader of decades here. Gave it up a couple of years ago due to its consistent misogyny and the platform it gives nasty misogynists like Owen Jones.

I look forward to the day it folds.

boldlygoingsomewhere · 19/09/2018 07:21

I’m another ex-Guardian reader. I stopped a few years ago when I began to notice how they did (or didn’t!) report on issues affecting women and girls.

I feel politically homeless...

Tellin · 19/09/2018 07:42

Any media site that proclaims 'comment is free but facts are sacred' but then deletes comments and facts is quite clearly not worth reading. Zero interest in free speech and debate, and the only facts we are allowed are from one side of the argument. That isn't journalism, it's... well. There are a range of appropriate words to finish that sentence.

Welcome Probably - I hope you find useful and interesting discussion on here. I certainly have.

Original poster
LambChopsMcGee · 19/09/2018 07:47

Hi @Probably. I'm sorry if you thought we were trying to attack you. Not at all. I took your question on the guardian in the spirit in which you intended it; a genuine search for understanding.

I just thought that people from here could reply in a calm way and get the message out. So many articles on this topic have comments closed so it seemed like a good opportunity.

OP posts:
Charliethefeminist · 19/09/2018 08:13

Tellin

Any media site that proclaims 'comment is free but facts are sacred' but then deletes comments and facts is quite clearly not worth reading

The Guardian is so shameless in this, and so hypocritical, it's hard to believe they can't see it themselves. Never mind money, I won't even give them a click any more.

NotBadConsidering · 19/09/2018 08:16

You can sneak some GC comments in. They get high recommends. See the Gabby Hinsliff article on the WEP:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/07/womens-equality-party-politics-sophie-walker

lucydogz · 19/09/2018 08:27

I stopped reading the Guardian post Cologne NYE. Can't say that I've missed it.

Melamin · 19/09/2018 09:07

I had a read, but most of the comments, that were left, were pretty pointless and not on topic and the ones that mentioned mumsnet were casting vague aspersions. It is sad really.

ProbablyOnTopic · 19/09/2018 10:33

Hi @LambChopsMcGee

I was just startled to see the OP reposted at the Guardian. Once I found this thread I was relieved to see it wasn't an attack piece. Thanks to you and others for friendly responses.

Some people have mentioned concerns about transwomen accessing female spaces. I should say that I fully sympathise with this. I understand why you wouldn't want people born male in women's sports teams, prisons or especially domestic violence shelters.

About five seconds after comments were closed I realised I and some people I was arguing with were probably at cross purposes. My issue is with people who harass trans people purely for existing. This is very much a thing that happens. Based on reading this thread, however, it doesn't seem to be the philosophy here.