Clever people believing silly things

[Awayfromitall]

Hi, disillusioned humanities academic here. I went into my profession because I liked research and wanted to be surrounded by clever people.

So how can I square that with a colleague telling me that intersex conditions prove humans are not a dimorphic species, and then coming up with the killer line "You could be XXY and not even know it." (XXY=meaning Klinefelter Syndrome, usually resulting in fertility problems and small testicles in males, some scientists don't even believe this should be classed as 'intersex'). I am a female who has given birth.

How can you hold forth on intersex conditions and not even bother reading the wikipedia page?

We wouldn't let our students get away with it. No matter what your politics, even your view on self-ID, this is just dumb, stupid, unworthy and it drives me mad. Sorry for rant.

A case of being so open minded his brain has fallen out.

female brain, sadly

What did you say to your colleague? I'd have found it hard not to verbally obliterate the fool.

I feel your pain. It's been interesting watching Skepticat and Andy Lewis on Twitter, both stalwarts of the Sceptic Society (I think that's the name) in days of yore, both trenchant critics of transideology now, both cast out as transphobes in a manner very reminiscent of the pre-Reformation Christian church labelling people as heretics for believing dangerous things like the earth goes round the sun, not vice versa. Why are the Emperor's clothes so visible to some people and so obviously invisible to others?

Couldn't you ask how many legs people have..and then point out that some people are born with zero to four legs...does that prove that people don't have two legs?

It seems to be that so many of the people that are happy to point out the complete bullshit believed by flat Earthers, anti-vaxxers, Holocaust deniers and climate change deniers have a HUGE gap in their critical thinking ability when someone says TWAW.

Tiger, that's what I want to know, too. It took me one gender critical article to see how flimsy the arguments of the trans rights movement are (speaking of the movement in its current political form). It's clear to anyone with half a brain, even if the policy side of things is hard to solve.

Prawn, ashamed to say I was just dumbfounded.

Yes, What, it's astounding. Especially among academics. And this nonsense is creating real rifts between colleagues and friends. Just wondering if other academics are in a similar position?

When I did my PhD there was one young woman who was an evangelical Christian who believed in the literal truth of genesis. She worked on evolution.

Cognitive dissonance is a bizarre thing

Teacher friend has explained the 'wash of hormones' trans gender theory to a group of us

And yes i just sat there...

I think being able to apply critical thought is a specific skill and not necessarily related to how academically high achieving someone is. It also may have something to do with entrenched thought patterns and an unwillingness to be wrong even in the face of evidence.

There is a certain strength of character to someone who is willing to reassess and change their mind from time to time. It's something we should all practice but in reality people are stubborn and it's something that seems to have become worse over the last 20 years.

It's horrifying, isn't it? Very bright woman I know, doing a PhD about lesbian women's experiences of something or other, calls herself a feminist — and yet won't define 'woman' as 'adult human female' and struggles these days to speak to me, a hateful terf. Except she's known me for years and is aware I'm not hateful. I think deep down she knows that my arguments are rational and hers aren't but she's joined the cult and the price of changing her mind is too high. Trans is cool and fun: being GC means hanging out with older hard-line feminists who aren't cool and aren't fun. She'd rather live with the cognitive dissonance than risk being exiled to a world of women-centred women.

Every time I inadvertently catch Thought For the Day I think to myself “what are you on?” I was brought up a Catholic and remember vividly when I first realised that it was all made up nonsense. I still can’t understand why people believe religious dogma, but to me it explains how people can believe blatant untruths such as TWAW.

thatdamnwoman, your friend is probably just shit scared. She'll want a job after the PhD and being labelled a transphobe is not conducive to that. Being transinclusive gets you brownie points, even if it fries your brain in the process.

I'm not saying I'm brave, either. Actually quite ashamed of my own cowardice. It is very hard being gender critical in academia. I know I will get asked to define 'woman' at some point and to my great shame I will probably mumble something weasly, along the lines of 'open to complex gender identities'. If I'm feeling cocky I might reply 'would you also ask me to define 'men'?

And there's also the impact on your teaching. If you are labelled a transphobe, colleagues might say that you're not a 'safe' person to be around students. Academics are not brave people. That's why they ended up in academia. [end of self-loathing rant]

Thank you, Materialist. People close to me were born with a disability, and they can't identify out of that, either, so I share your loathing of those who appropriate DSDs.

Where is the human decency, that's what I don't understand.

Not more intersex appropriation! If you've been pregnant (and you're human) you're female. There is a remote possibility that you have an undiagnosed intersex condition, but that doesn't change the fact that you are female, because people with intersex conditions are either male or female just like everyone else, not (to quote the marvellous mrkhtake2) some mythical third sex.

I saw a historian I know on Twitter trot out that invidious misreading of de Beauvoir about becoming a woman. I was completely shocked that someone who examines texts for a living could be so taken in. But she has blue hair, so I guess I should have known . ..

I know a scientist who believes in homeopathy. Trying to watch her explain why was painful and embarrassing.

Materialist - I hear you! Friends of mine have a son with Kleinfelter's. Their biggest worry/hope is whether he will eventually manage to talk, how they will set in place care plans for him when they're too old to look after him. (Admittedly he is at the extreme end of Kleinfelter's - most boys with the condition are not so severely affected).

As you say - appropriating serious medical conditions as if they were some sort of fashion accessory.

Awayfromitall, perhaps you need to get in touch with academics who've come out — Katherine Stock et al — and have some support lined up for the moment when you're asked to define 'woman' and say 'adult human female'. Because if you go along with anything but that you're no better, really, than the colleague in your OP. Sorry if that sounds harsh but I think you must already realise that this isn't something you can avoid forever. It won't stop until we stop it.

I have a friend, science degree from Cambridge, makes money reading people's energies, and will not counter any questions about gender critical feminism, just labelling it all as TERF transphobia.

I think the main message that keeps coming through in these anecdotes is that people are believing silly things for money. They may have been educated to understand the facts, but if the motivation is to ignore them and run with the fantasy because that's what gets you paid then they'll do it.

I can't speak about the example given in the OP, but don't you ever think if people you know to be clever and logical can reason through an argument and come to a different conclusion to yourselves that theirs might be a perfectly valid logical conclusion to come to? Even if it's not the same conclusion you come to? It's not like that never happens, it really is completely possible.

I would say that's a tad bit more likely than them having some sort of religious-like unquestioning belief in some "right-on" dogma, wouldn't you? Like they might actually not be total idiots (and in fact you know full well they're not) so maybe - just maybe - there's more than one rational and intelligent way of looking at things?

For me personally, when I argue for trans-inclusive feminism on here all I'm looking to achieve is to show people that you can hold the opinions that I hold not because you're a completely unthinking brainless cult member but because it is a completely reasonable position; as, for the most part, are the positions of those I argue against. I don't expect to change your minds - we fundamentally disagree - but I don't think you're all stupid, and I know I'm not either.