Clever people believing silly things

[Awayfromitall]

Hi, disillusioned humanities academic here. I went into my profession because I liked research and wanted to be surrounded by clever people.

So how can I square that with a colleague telling me that intersex conditions prove humans are not a dimorphic species, and then coming up with the killer line "You could be XXY and not even know it." (XXY=meaning Klinefelter Syndrome, usually resulting in fertility problems and small testicles in males, some scientists don't even believe this should be classed as 'intersex'). I am a female who has given birth.

How can you hold forth on intersex conditions and not even bother reading the wikipedia page?

We wouldn't let our students get away with it. No matter what your politics, even your view on self-ID, this is just dumb, stupid, unworthy and it drives me mad. Sorry for rant.

I found the report; it concerns an xxy mother with three children, one of whom is also an xxy female: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11173857

The thread was centered on whether it was possible to be an xxy female despite being fertile. This case shows it is indeed possible.

My husband and I have both worked in university support. Never equate academia and knowledge. Sadly, while there are many academics who are actually dedicated to knowledge such as you op, there are many more who simply never left school.

And this means?

If that's asking me (not quite sure) thatdamnwoman, it means that there are indeed a lot of clever people in academia who don't actually know a lot of the real-world context around their supposed subject. Generously it's because they're focused on their specialism. Ungenerously - and this does happen - it's because they've always been in the education system, never wanted to leave it, knew nothing else, and, well, know nothing else. Middle class bubble

The thread was centered on whether it was possible to be an xxy female despite being fertile. This case shows it is indeed possible.

As far as I am aware there is precisely one case of this so when the OP says that a colleague tells her she could be XXY without knowing it the odds are about 7.5 billion to one.

Those are the same odds as being Paul McCartney.

I dont think it is centred on that one fact regarding XXY

Its centered on the fact that even 'intelligent' people can believe stupid stuff

Marvellous.
In the history of humankind, we have found a single example of an xxy human with a female reproductive system.

We must immediately ignore and dismantle any meaning relating to the unambiguous and binary sex status of the remaining 7.2 billion humans because reasons.

Also, up next, why humans don't actually have 46 chromosomes, and why two legged people are a myth.

Yes, there are extraordinary and exceptional cases in medical literature.
Yes, there are quirks in nature that produce variation. These do not prove that the statistical norm is a myth.
The norm is right there, giving context to the remarkable exception.
The exceptions stand in stark relief against the norm.

Arguing that a one in several billion chance sometimes occurs, so the usual several billion occurrences should be ignored is how lottery tickets get sold.

We don't and can't organise society around the notion that a billion examples of reality cannot be relied upon because an exception was once found.

We work with what we can be sure of, and we accommodate those biological exceptional cases individually when they occur.

Surely exceptions prove the rule?

"You could be XXY and not even know it." Your colleague was correct. Approximately 1 in 660 men have XXY chromosomes, many have no symptoms and do not know they have XXY . www.nhs.uk/conditions/klinefelters-syndrome/

I agree though that this doesn't prove that humans aren't a dimorphic species.

I think saying it to a woman who has given birth is a 1 in 7 billion likelihood though.

Klinefelters is a male disorder of sex development. Boys born with Klinefelters are considered male.
The example quoted upthread is not only rare for the general population, it's extremely rare for Klinefelters too.

I think saying it to a woman who has given birth is a 1 in 7 billion likelihood though.

Quite.

Barracker you've truly been on fire the last day or two (maybe longer, but I'm not always lurking as much as other times).

The existence of mules does not prove that some donkeys are horses.

In the history of humankind, we have found a single example of an xxy human with a female reproductive system.

It is also not a 100% xxy organism afaik, but some mosaicism, that obviously did not affect the gonades and gamete. The gamete was still an egg (X), not sperm. Given the gamete determine an organism's sex, the organism is still female.

Well, I have to say, the infinity of human diversity is truly an amazing thing. As is the willingness of MN to engage in reasoned debate.

And thanks to dmartin for finding this interesting case study, and the other posters who chipped in.

But I suppose the main point still stands: if you argue that dimorphism doesn't exist on the basis of these rare exceptions, then you are being disingenuous, to put it mildly.