Completely radical, off the cuff suggestion by the estimable Dr Kathleen Stock:

This person is reported as getting a Gender Recignition Certificate +in prison+. I had to get DBS checked the other day to mentor a uni applicant. This needs to stop. GRCs should not be issued to anyone with criminal record after age of 18. All applicants should be DBS checked. (For formatting reasons I needed to change Stock's ** to ++)

twitter.com/Docstockk/status/1041933044930752512

I'm not ensure that is wholly practical/appropriate (my socialisation is flooding my mind with "whatabouteries") but I completely understand what prompts the comment.

@MacaroonMama - no, it's not case law. There's no precedent set by it, but equally if this person has 2 diagnoses of dysphoria and has lived "as a woman" for 2 years (as far as possible at HMP Littlehey) then there's no further measure of suitability for a GRC.

One of my friends is passionately defending the "moral case" for letting paedophiles and rapists into women's prisons. i'm just horrified that this is now the supposedly progressive position.

In the sense of let's pretend that there are no transwomen who're pedophiles or rapists because NoTrueTrans or in the sense that they're defending the right of these specific known pedos and rapists (White etc) to be in those spaces?

I don't think I'd be able to hold my tongue if it was the latter.

Thank you LauraMipsum Was worries by that article written by a lawyer a while ago about was it parity? Measuring treatment of a TW against other men or women would have different outcomes? Thanks for clearing it up

The latter, Angry. I've not held my tongue and I don't give a fuck if she thinks I'm a terf.

There are 12 transwomen inmates at Littlehey (men’s estate) according to recent news reports. One of them is child rapist, Carrie Cooper:

metro.co.uk/2018/09/08/rapist-transgender-woman-found-guilty-despite-calling-new-abuse-case-bks-7925539/

www.huntspost.co.uk/news/concern-over-access-to-avon-catalogue-for-transgender-inmates-1-5581733

Littlehey is almost all sex offenders.

Seeing as being an incarcerated sex offender is not a a barrier to receiving a GRC, can we assume the other trans inmates (either 11 or 12 of them, depending on whether Lewin was counted as one of the 12 or not back in June) will also be looking to move to the women’s estate, following Lewin’s example?

I wonder if we could start a mass letter writing campaign to imprisoned women? Both to offer solidarity and to hear their testimony, should they want to share it?

The voices of women prisoners are very much missing from this discussion.

I've started a thread in AIBU god help me. This has to stop

I think some lawyer somewhere should be demanding the rights of the women in there to be housed in a female only prison. We need a test case a victim needs to be able to prosecute these attackers and the prison service or whoever this mess boils down to. This can’t be allowed to go on any longer it’s horrific.

[applauds Seafret]

I'm willing to go to Peterborough if a protest is organised.

I actually cried with anger and despair reading this on Twitter this morning. I was going to post a thread but thought I should wait until I was calmer.
HOW is a paedophile allowed to get a GRC while inside ? HOW is it acceptable to house him with women while he “waits for surgery” I think that will be a looooong wait eh ?
I am going to write to my MP about this. What else can we do ?

I would also come to Peterborough to protest.
I can't believe this is actually happening. Its like a sick joke.

There's no precedent set by it, but equally if this person has 2 diagnoses of dysphoria and has lived "as a woman" for 2 years (as far as possible at HMP Littlehey) then there's no further measure of suitability for a GRC.

This 'hack' document was linked on another thread this morning:

'NAVIGATING THE FRUSTRATION OF MEDICAL
TRANSITION FOR TRANS WOMEN IN THE UK'
bytenoise.co.uk/oh-for-fucks-sake/mascara-and-hope.pdf

Thank you for the AIBU posts. Sorry if the AIBU is not quite right, or too strong or whatever. Just had to get something out there before i just got lost in tears of frustration.

Mad, mad world we live in. I have to go offline now. Hope we are turning the tide just a little.

HOW is a paedophile allowed to get a GRC while inside ? HOW is it acceptable to house him with women while he “waits for surgery”

current thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3368989-Trans-Porn-she-cock-she-male-etc

Question to TRAs watching this. It seems that there seems to be a high proportion of sex offenders amongst the trans prisoners- is it because they are not really trans and masquerading to get a lighter, easier sentence, or is it that this cohort of the trans population are the ones who are trans due to a sexual fetish rather than dysphoria, or is it just because they are biological males !! Or a combination ....it's not looking good for public support for self id.

Heads up that this thread may be deleted if there is a parallel one one running in AIBU.

THis has just happened with the thread in FWR about mastectomies.

I see there are at least a couple of comments under the Mail article of the 'women wanted equal rights' (like that's even relevant in this case) and 'suck it up, you're criminals' variety.

The same sort of people making these comments would be out with machetes and pitchforks if these inmates were released and housed near them and their families.

if one of the current criteria of obtaining a GRC is to live as a woman for two years and part of this living as woman is, as we've been repeatedly told, the necessity to access spaces and services for women (toilets, changing rooms, etc., etc.) how has this been achieved within a prison?

THIS. Who do we ask about this?

if one of the current criteria of obtaining a GRC is to live as a woman for two years and part of this living as woman is, as we've been repeatedly told, the necessity to access spaces and services for women (toilets, changing rooms, etc., etc.) how has this been achieved within a prison?

I suppose a male loo and shower could have been labeled "female'. But we know that male transpeople aren't forced to use female facilities before being issued with a GRC. For a start, how could that be monitored and who is authorised to give them permission? They are using female facilities because they want to.

@VickyEadie

Here are emails of people you could ask:

[email protected] [email protected] [email protected]

IAmLurkacus

Thanks!

Vicky I assume it just means using a “female” name, wearing makeup etc. As though those things are how women live. Living as a women is a nonsense term, unless you are a woman, and not dead.

if one of the current criteria of obtaining a GRC is to live as a woman for two years and part of this living as woman is, as we've been repeatedly told, the necessity to access spaces and services for women (toilets, changing rooms, etc., etc.) how has this been achieved within a prison?

I think I saw a report of one prisoner using the argument that they should be moved to a women's prison in order to get a GRC, because if they were in the women's estate they could prove that they were 'living as a woman'.

Why not let people change gender whenever they like, but base our laws and segregated facilities on sex?

Well, quite.

I genuinely do not care what 'gender' someone considers themselves to be. But sex segregation is about sex. I cannot think of any area thats segregated by 'gender' nor any area that would make sense to be segrgated by that either. besides the likes of...separating feminine and masculine stuff in shops. Clothes wise, not changing room wise.