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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Single Sex Schools

31 replies

DiveBombingSeagull · 15/09/2018 11:53

Idly musing with a friend whose DD is in Y6 and she is looking at secondary schools.

Her eldest son is at the very over subscribed, highest performing school in our county, which just happens to be a school for boys (accepts girls in the sixth form) and she was saying "it's a pity that DD can't go there next year, she would love it, they have so many more opportunities and facilities than "...

Made me wonder if her DD did want to go, could she self identify for a short while and apply?

I'm half tempted to ring the school on Monday and ask the question.

OP posts:
MoggyP · 15/09/2018 11:57

Wouid she want to live the rest of her time at primary as a boy?

Yes, you will need to ask the school about its policy both for admissions and for remaining in the school. And also think about the impact on this girl, who may be entirely happy with her sex and gender, to live so differently for a protracted time. I would not force a transition on anyone. It come from within. What does the girl actually want, and how does she see her identity?

StayOutOfTheForrest · 15/09/2018 11:59

I’m sure that they would say yes in theory; they would be scared of the MRA/TRA pile on if they said no.

However, it would not work in practice. Your daughter and her ‘male vagina’ would not be welcomed.

Which is, of course, awful and terrible Grin

scotsheather · 15/09/2018 12:03

In theory she probably could, but it sounds like its not in her long term interests. Identifying in such a way out of perceived advantages of being the opposite sex is in neither the child or others benefit and would not be considered gender dysphoria imo. No harm asking of course but don't pressurise your daughter.

StayOutOfTheForrest · 15/09/2018 12:12

Also you are not taking into account the essential ‘maleness’ of a boys school, even if they do take girls in six form.

Boys learn differently from girls, and although they also thrive in a mixed sex environment, she will be plunged into something designed exclusively for boys.

She won’t be able to do sports with the boys.
The teachers and staff have chosen to work in a single sex environment. And what about friends?
Oh and the other parents will probably kick up a massive stink.

Is a funny but ultimately moronic idea.

Racecardriver · 15/09/2018 12:19

She shouldn't be able to. Single sex schools are really wonderful because they are single sex not single gender. This would have a negative impact on the other students especially if they come from Conservative backgrounds which would make it difficult to share changing rooms with a member of the opposite sex. It's a shame that there is no adequate provision for education for girls in the area but that is a risk you take when you have children with the intention of using state education. I would also wonder whether it was healthy for her to do this. I would imagine she ought struggle with this.

olderthanyouthink · 15/09/2018 12:24

The idea of identifying your way into a school for the other sex is terrible but still think someone should try to prove a point

ErrolTheDragon · 15/09/2018 12:26

Single sex schools can be, I think, particularly valuable for children who don't follow rigid gender stereotypes - the geeky girls etc. 'Gender' is less of an issue.

Original poster
DiveBombingSeagull · 15/09/2018 12:26

Her DD is a bit of a tomboy, loves predominantly male sports, wears football kit when not in uniform etc.

In all likelihood my friend is unlikely to even consider it, I think it was more me being a trouble-maker and saying to her, actually there are lots of people who do the reverse, and identify as female / gender fluid to take advantage in women's sports for example, so why shouldn't women / girls be able to avail themselves of a bit of male privilege.

OP posts:
MrsFogi · 15/09/2018 12:32

It's only a matter of time until this happens in many schools and single sex education (particularly for girls) will disappear.
Yet again this is why sex rather than gender should be the deciding factor. If girls/boys want to identify as the other gender temporarily or permanently during their time at school (and it seems to be all the rage to do so now during adolescence) they should be allowed to get on with it but in the school that matches their biological sex. I would have no problem with a female who identifies as a boy in a girls' school or a male who identifies as a girl in a boys' school however I would have a huge issue if schools followed the approach of the girl guides.

jellyfrizz · 15/09/2018 12:35

Boys learn differently from girls

No, they don't.

Babdoc · 15/09/2018 12:37

Crikey no, OP! Imagine your poor DD sharing a communal shower after PE with 30 naked teenage boys?! I don’t think claims of “But I identify as a boy!” will be any help at all.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 15/09/2018 12:39

The real issue is why there is not an equally good school for girls ...

ADastardlyThing · 15/09/2018 12:42

"Her DD is a bit of a tomboy, loves predominantly male sports, wears football kit when not in uniform etc."

According to many definitions she is already trans because of ^

My DS has asked for a doll, he loves pastel colours and has mostly girl mates, in some schools he'd be 'watched" as being potentially trans

ZuttZeVootEeVro · 15/09/2018 12:45

Wouid she want to live the rest of her time at primary as a boy

What does this even mean? Play football, wear trousers, transform into a male child?

StayOutOfTheForrest · 15/09/2018 12:48

She may love ‘male’ sports, but she won’t be able to play them in a boys school. At least she won’t be able to play rugby with her peers. And possibly other sports.

StayOutOfTheForrest · 15/09/2018 12:50

All boys schools can also let boys flourish in what can be perceived as more feminine activities such as music and drama. Or take on more
Caring roles in the school. If you add girls into the mix, I suspect those numbers would fall.

ADastardlyThing · 15/09/2018 12:57

I really hope some parents and girls will exploit this, as soon as this self id starts affecting boys and men negatively, there might be a rethink.

hackmum · 15/09/2018 13:00

I think if it ever does get exploited, it will need to be en masse. The idea of one girl in a class with 20 boys is pretty scary - she will inevitably be on the receiving end of bullying and sexual abuse.

But I do look forward to the day when 100 girls self-identifying as boys apply to Eton or Winchester.

silentcrow · 15/09/2018 13:01

The real issue is why there is not an equally good school for girls ...

This is, of course, the main issue (and why mixed schools aren't up to the same standard, too).

However, I think it does beautifully illustrate the utter stupidity of self-id. Put this proposition in front of virtually anyone and you'll get reactions about safety on the pitch, showers, periods, bullying, etc etc. Boys need their space, right?

Then all you have to do is reverse it: Why then should a boy be able to identify into a girls' school? Girls' sports? Girl guides? Girls surely need their space, yes? So why are girls ALREADY being put at risk, and what are you going to do about it?

YetAnotherSpartacus · 15/09/2018 13:06

However, I think it does beautifully illustrate the utter stupidity of self-id. Put this proposition in front of virtually anyone and you'll get reactions about safety on the pitch, showers, periods, bullying, etc etc. Boys need their space, right

I know. But there is something complicated going on in my head about how men and boys want the little that girls and women have when they have so much already. I can't explain it though.

Pringlesaddict · 15/09/2018 13:18

Presumably, this is tongue in cheek because the obvious reasons for why this would be a terrible idea are way too obvious.

Sexual assault in schools rife in mixed schools and she'd be exposed to "female as other" a thousand times worse than at a mixed school. A sure fire way to get a girl to hate her body is to let her develop in front of a few hundred boys as the only girl.

Additionally, in the current climate, the absolute last thing I would want to do with a "tomboy" is in anyway encourage them to think they are trans.

Pringlesaddict · 15/09/2018 13:20

o why shouldn't women / girls be able to avail themselves of a bit of male privilege.

You can't borrow privilege. Even if you could pass as male you'd always be worried about getting caught out and the risks that come with it.

Juells · 15/09/2018 13:24

I'd want to send her to an all-girls' school. I don't see the benefit to girls in mixed schooling at all.

ADastardlyThing · 15/09/2018 13:25

"A sure fire way to get a girl to hate her body is to let her develop in front of a few hundred boys as the only girl. "

Ah but with self id he'd be developing as a boy so it's all cool Wink

silentcrow · 15/09/2018 13:28

Spartacus yes, I think I see where you might be going - there's the power differential to consider here as well. Women aren't "allowed" to climb the latter and move men aside; women can shove over though.

My example was more as a quick means of peak transing someone who hasn't really been exposed to all the knowledge we have, iyswim - would easily work on dads, grandads, etc. It reveals the ridiculous double standard and safeguarding issues instantly.