Discussing GC issues with DP.

[GreenGoblin0]

Long time lurker of this board although have been frequenting Twitter much more of late.

Have had some awful arguments with DP over the GRA consultation and over trans stuff generally. I find myself getting more and more angry about what is going on but he doesn't seem to understand. We don't really argue normally about anything.

For context we're both very left wing and usually agree on things politically. He gets some things (agrees Karen White shouldn't have been in women's prison, agrees womens sports are an issue) but I've tried to raise the GG and BG guidelines with him and he just doesn't seem to get it. He thinks it's parents that would have the issue and girls would just "accept" that trans girls are girls not boys so it's totally fine for them to share changing rooms and accommodation on overnight trips and also it's not the same as having "mixed sex" changing rooms because trans girls are girls and not boys. When i said it's a safeguarding issue he came up with the "that's what they said about gay ppl" line.

He also believes TWAW and so think I'm denying trans ppl exist when I say I don't agree with this.

Partly I think he doesn't understands the issues fully, struggling to find a way to get things across to him without it ending in an argument. Any ideas?

Usually when adult A tells adult B they are doing something for their own good, adult B can recognise the good intention behind it.

The adult who pours away the drink of an alcoholic, who forces the mentally unwell individual to see a GP, who hides the addict's drugs. All this is understandable tough love.

So why cannot trans individuals recognise the good intentions? Why do they feel threatened? Why do they keep insisting they know their own minds better than a random GC feminist does? Why do they push to have their gender identities recognised when they could just keep quiet and wait for a cure?

So why cannot trans individuals recognise the good intentions? Why do they feel threatened? Why do they keep insisting they know their own minds better than a random GC feminist does? Why do they push to have their gender identities recognised when they could just keep quiet and wait for a cure?

You're still talking about children here, are you?

Your post doesn't make any sense, Dakinis. I've read it three times. Are you still talking about children and, if so, what do you mean? If not, ditto.

Dakinis - what do you think the alcoholic says to the family member who pours away their drink? Do you really think they say "oh, yeah, you're right, I'm an alcoholic, off to the Priory with me tomorrow." Or do you think they say "What the bloody hell do you think you're doing? I'm not an alcoholic. I just have the odd glass socially."

Rewind a few years - what do you think the teenager says when you challenge them on some self-destructive piece of behaviour? Smoking, or bunking off school. Do they say "oh yes, mum, you're so right, I will reform my ways forthwith." Or do they say, Kevin-the-teenager style "You don't UNDERSTAAAAAAND."

A few years earlier - your child, chocolate round their mouth. "Did you eat the last slice of cake." "No, wasn't me, must have been the dog..."

A teenager comes to you saying "I'm trans, I want a double mastectomy as soon as I'm old enough." You know they've got a history of self-harm, past sexual abuse, possibly autistic. Do you say "oh well, I'm sure you know your own mind"? Or do you sit them down and say "I really think we should explore why you feel this way"?

Yes a few people regret transitioning, I believe about 5%. The current safeguards in place are enough to prevent vulnerable adults (yes we are talking about adults, children are not routinely mutilated as one would be lead to believe on here).

I don't think the majority of people who report significantly improved quality of life after transitioning should have been prevented from doing so by the GC campaign.

www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/321258.php

Didn't I read that suicide rates were higher post transition?

I was interested in that survey, so I had a quick look. Couple of points: It’s a sample of about 150 from a single clinic (they started with 610, not clear whether those surveyed were happier or less so than those who dropped out).

All participants were male. Has a similar follow up been done for females?

The report summary says surgery, but not what surgery - I’ll have a look for the original paper.

" girls would just "accept" that trans girls are girls not boys so it's totally fine for them to share changing rooms and accommodation on overnight trips and also it's not the same as having "mixed sex" changing rooms because trans girls are girls and not boys."

Woah. He seems to have swallowed the kool aid and then some. And interesting that he thinks girls will just "accept" it. Sorry, but not sure what that says about him, but it ain't positive. I wonder what he would think if this affected him personally.

Girls are conditioned to not make a fuss and be 'nice'. They don't believe that the moon is made of green cheese thought.

"because, let's face it, it doesn't really affect him."

Isn't that a problem with so many issues re men and women's problems? But yes, in essence this is the "why can't you just let them be, it doesn't affect you argument". If you proceed to answer that yes it does - "fear mongering" and "hateful".

Interesting that some people are trying to frame the debate as being about children's rights.
Sterilising children is despicable.

That's a lovely clear explanation, FermatsTheorem. I think most parents will agree with you. The ROGD study was very interesting. We've been hearing about social contagion, with clusters of transmen appearing in schools, for some time.

As a mother I'm very aware how long it takes for DC to develop judgement. The brain doesn't fully mature until you're 25.

So the idea that perfectly healthy DC in their early teens are considered able to consent to puberty blockers is appalling to me. Treatment that destroys a child's fertility is normally only given if it's a matter of life or death. That's where the phoney suicide claims come in. And yet the Tavistock reports one suicide in 10 years.

I understood that around 80% of girls identifying as trans change their minds by age 18.

They did when there wasn't blind affirmation.

If you affirm them, give them a community where they are hero worshiped, given puberty blockers, and surgery, how many do you think will desist?

If you affirm them, give them a community where they are hero worshiped, given puberty blockers, and surgery, how many do you think will desist?

Indeed.