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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

40% against the GRA changes in Scotland, from initial consultation breakdown

61 replies

leyat · 12/09/2018 18:10

So the initial findings just shared with ourselves and some others regarding the Scottish GRA consultation found that a whopping 40% of responses were against self ID, despite LGBT/trans orgs saying that only a very tiny minority were against the government's proposals.

Yes we would like a majority against but that was never going to be likely due to the nature of the issue and the fact that LGBT groups were rallying all their support behind supporting the proposals while most women had no idea it was even happening or was relevant to them. But we also never needed a majority against the proposals to challenge this legislation. We of course need to see a proper breakdown and how responses are weighted, but this is a win for us. This kind of legislation needs solid widespread support if it is to be argued that it will not impact on women and girls, and not even something like an unrepresentative consultation where trans activists went full force in getting all their support to respond to it - and one which did not at all address the possible impacts on women and girls - can give them that. And we can be sure that women's responses were not generic and went into great detail and evidence in terms of how our lives would be impacted, which is something the govt cannot ignore. The govt cannot say a substantial number of women's lives being affected is just fine cos most people that responded to the consultation don't care. It doesn't work like that. So great job everyone who worked on this. We did good.

*I tried to link the file but realise it's only images I can upload...

OP posts:
arranfan · 12/09/2018 18:12

Can you link where we can see the file listed or the Google terms we'd need to use to locate it?

ToeToToe · 12/09/2018 18:20

Interesting. As you say, there will be a self-selecting bias here - loads of people are not even aware of this.

The results of Penis Pink News own commissioned poll found only 18% of the general public are in favour of self ID.

That's an awful lot of us being sent to the gulag for re-education.

leyat · 12/09/2018 18:21

This is most of the letter I got in response...

40% against the GRA changes in Scotland, from initial consultation breakdown
40% against the GRA changes in Scotland, from initial consultation breakdown
40% against the GRA changes in Scotland, from initial consultation breakdown
OP posts:
oleannasbluemask · 12/09/2018 18:22

Never again can they call us a tiny minority.

Blacksquirrellysock · 12/09/2018 18:29

Just remember that so many women weren’t aware of this whilst the TRAs mobilised their entire online army to fill this in. This is a good result.

leyat · 12/09/2018 18:32

Yup, exactly right. We are not a tiny minority and the consultation did not specifically consult women but it has given as a basis for asking the Scottish govt to now consult with us on these changes.

OP posts:
ToeToToe · 12/09/2018 18:32

Oh, I filled it in, and I haven't got a letter.

HuckfromScandal · 12/09/2018 18:34

Very happy to be part of the 40%

Keeptrudging · 12/09/2018 18:35

Hang on a minute. Only 49% of respondents were from within Scotland? How does that work, that 51% of respondents are influencing policy from out with. What % of those resident in Scotland were for/against it?

KataraJean · 12/09/2018 18:46

From the letter above it looks more like a two thirds for/one third against of Scottish respondents.

I need to do the maths properly but 49% of 15000 ish respondents is just under 7500 people, so around 5000 respondents in Scotland who filled in the consultation would approve self-ID.

I don’t know - in any other circumstances, a two thirds majority for a proposal would be a significant victory. No to self-ID is a third, that is 2 500 people living in Scotland -approximately. If this means something can still be done, then good but I hope you are right.

That said, the consultation questions were loaded and the consultation was not widely publicised.
Scotland is already fairly far down the genderist route so I think this will be seen as support, unfortunately.

theOtherPamAyres · 12/09/2018 20:07

That is a tremendous result, given that few people knew (1) that there was a consultation (2) what was at stake.

Wanderabout · 12/09/2018 20:16

The pro self-ID lobby have received HUGE funding from the Scottish government. Those campaigning against? Zero.

30 or 40 % responding to say no to the end of single sex spaces and provisions on a hidden consultation with a well funded well organised lobby is huge.

Polls show Scots overwhelmingly against Self-ID.

And on matters of consent, the party saying 'no' gets to decide.

scotsheather · 12/09/2018 20:20

Majority voted 'do nothing' for children though I can see that being twisted as the majority actually voting for allowing children just split among the various means of. Parental application and capable child alone outnumber those opposed.

Zhora · 12/09/2018 20:35

Impressive result for self ID when you compare it to the fact that public support for gay marriage has only crept above 60% in recent years.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 12/09/2018 20:40

i've carefully typed out the link in your letter. here it is to spare others the pain!

www.gov.scot/topics/justice/law/17867/gender-recognition-review/review-of-gender-recognition-act-2004-list-of-orga

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 12/09/2018 20:41

support for gay marriage has only crept above 60% in recent years

in surveys of self selecting respondents Zhora?

sexnotgender · 12/09/2018 20:44

Also heartening given how loaded and confusing the questions were it’s not a bad result.

Wanderabout · 12/09/2018 20:47

Impressive result for self ID when you compare it to the fact that public support for gay marriage has only crept above 60% in recent years.

Not really a relevant comparison as:
A. The right to gay marriage didn't remove anyone else's rights
B. This is a consultation not a poll. Polls show only 18% in support of Self-ID

IAmLurkacus · 12/09/2018 20:51

WTAF is with some of those responses from some women’s aids??? Shock

ToeToToe · 12/09/2018 20:51

It's not comparable to gay marriage IMO.

Nobody was re-defining (and bastardising) language, biology, women's rights and children's safeguarding when campaigning for gay marriage.

Nobody was punching women or threatening to put them in gulags.

littlbrowndog · 12/09/2018 20:54

Hardly anyone in Scotland knew about this

We have a population of 4 million.

I guess less than 1% knew about this

Was already done deal

AllDayBreakfast · 12/09/2018 20:59

So the majority (but not overwhelming majority) support it?

What percentage is needed for it to go through?

IAmLurkacus · 12/09/2018 20:59

WTF are ‘A&B hangouts’ group and why are they being allowed to groom children? Also WTF did we decide children making laws instead of responsible adults was a good idea?

I think I’m going to have to read the rest tomorrow, it’s enraging me!

littlbrowndog · 12/09/2018 21:00

Not the majority of th3 Scottish ppl. Most of them knew nowt about it

ToeToToe · 12/09/2018 21:01

Agree it was already a done-deal. Scotland had already decided when they sneakily changed the definition of woman.

I bet there are so many people unaware of this too.