40% against the GRA changes in Scotland, from initial consultation breakdown

[leyat]

So the initial findings just shared with ourselves and some others regarding the Scottish GRA consultation found that a whopping 40% of responses were against self ID, despite LGBT/trans orgs saying that only a very tiny minority were against the government's proposals.

Yes we would like a majority against but that was never going to be likely due to the nature of the issue and the fact that LGBT groups were rallying all their support behind supporting the proposals while most women had no idea it was even happening or was relevant to them. But we also never needed a majority against the proposals to challenge this legislation. We of course need to see a proper breakdown and how responses are weighted, but this is a win for us. This kind of legislation needs solid widespread support if it is to be argued that it will not impact on women and girls, and not even something like an unrepresentative consultation where trans activists went full force in getting all their support to respond to it - and one which did not at all address the possible impacts on women and girls - can give them that. And we can be sure that women's responses were not generic and went into great detail and evidence in terms of how our lives would be impacted, which is something the govt cannot ignore. The govt cannot say a substantial number of women's lives being affected is just fine cos most people that responded to the consultation don't care. It doesn't work like that. So great job everyone who worked on this. We did good.

*I tried to link the file but realise it's only images I can upload...

I mean feck w3 hav3 4 million ppl in my country

Look at the responses. Groups that is dependent on state

Hang on a minute. Only 49% of respondents were from within Scotland? How does that work, that 51% of respondents are influencing policy from out with. What % of those resident in Scotland were for/against it?

I am in one of the other UK nations. I filled it in because it was unclear whether a Scottish self-ID GRC would have equivalent standing in the rest of the UK. As a woman using facilities in RUK, I don’t see why I shouldn’t get a say on self-ID through the back door. Certainly no less democratic than a tiny minority of Scots deciding for me. I was very up front and truthful in the demographic questions, so they can factor that in to the analysis.

Och it’s a pile of hidden shite tbh.

Hidden from the people of Scotland

What the fuck is RUK?

I'm in England and filled it in because I was (and am!) worrying about Scottish law setting some sort of precedent for the rest of the UK.

Vast majority of the UK are unaware of this self ID issue - it is very unpopular at a general population level (only 18% for self id in randomised studies).

This is how bad law is passed. Hard cases make bad law.

Self-selecting consultations where a small % of the population are benefitting - but there is a known and demonstrable impact on half the population (women and girls - sports, hospitals, toilets, changing rooms, girl guides, prisons etc) - but v few of those are aware of the consultation = recipe for disaster.

I would imagine they'll crow about 60% being pro self-ID and pass this law now. Sorry Scotland.

Thank you ADF international! That was a very good and compassionate response. I’m amazed as an atheist to find myself so grateful for the responses of Christian groups.

The numbers of people who object will only grow once word spreads - ok so not in time for the results, but this is encouraging.

Oh yeps but Scotland was done deal,anyroads

Was hidden consults

Actually, I'll amend that - men are affected too. Many men have gone on record as against self ID, and many are in support for single sex (not gender) spaces in toilets, hospitals etc.

Where is that boatyard blues. Is that same person as allday breakfast ?

The Rape Crisis centres are pro-self ID.

I imagine it's got nothing whatsoever with the risk of losing government and charity funding for not being "inclusive of all genders"

It's a bit of a Hobson's Choice, that one. "Accept males, or close".

RUK = rest of UK

👆see my question

You same person as allday breakfast ?

I don’t understand the question. 🤷‍♂️

It is entirely legitimate for people in the rest of the UK outside Scotland to have responded. The border is porous so it doesn't matter which constituent part of the UK introduces self-ID: we would be affected even if the place where we lived did.

Same goes for Scots who want to respond to the UK consultation. GO RIGHT AHEAD!

Although it's disappointing the majority were pro self-ID, those are big numbers for a consultation. I'd imagine it'd make the SG officials hesitate. Indeed, it's likely the volume of responses is part of the reason the SG announced last week it's not going to proceed with proposals to reform the GRA until the next legislative session.

There is hope! Let's not give up! Keep emailing your elected reps, visiting them at their surgeries, write letters, hand out flyers. NEVER GIVE UP.

I didn’t know they had announced delay in changes - that is encouraging as the tide continues to turn then there may be less political appetite to make they crazy changes

beta.gov.scot/programme-for-government/

Wording re the GRA: "We will also continue work to enable us to deliver Bills on Gender Recognition and Forensic Medical Examinations for next year’s legislative programme."

'Consultations' are always heavily weighted by responses from the people massively centred by the issue.

Who tend to be the majority of the ones who even know there's a consultation.

It wasn't a fucking referendum.

Excellent news, so GRA reform will be passing in Scotland. Also worth noting all the organisations that provide services to women in Scotland were pro-GRA reform. Overwhelmingly pro-GRA when so many people are ignorant of trans issues, a stunning victory for trans rights. SO glad I heard it here first.

Should also add that the government over there, and over here in England will give far more weight to trans voices. The GRA reform is primarily for them and about them. I wonder what proportion of trans people are pro-GRA reform, something in the 99-99.5% region I would guess...

The tide is turning.

The 2004 GRA slipped through without anybody noticing.

Now - people are talking about it. Really talking.

So many news stories - Karen White, Martin Ponting, Aimee & David Challenor, Jess Bradley, plus many other stories coming through from Canada (which is where we're heading if we don't object to this) - a woman hounded b a politician for holding a placard, a waxing shop sued because a muslim woman couldn't wax a trans M to F, a woman in a gym changing room having a naked male with an erection trying to engage her in conversation...

So many places are already acting as though self ID is law, these stories are coming out every week now.

A lot of those services rely on funding so I suppose it's a bit like having a gun to your head.

We need to start campaigning for the repeal of the GRA. There’s a thread on here somewhere. We need sex protections and we need protection for gender non conforming people and we need sex and gender legally separated.

Lols at the sister.

Yeps ova. Exactly