Literal Violence

[FloralBunting]

Just to highlight the importance of proper pronoun usage, and the fact that using a pronoun which someone feels is not acceptable is indeed connected to literal violence.

www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/04/25/hr-confidential-an-employee-threatened-a-co-worker-at-knifepoint.html?__twitter_impression=true

I hope we can all take away something useful from this today.

Obviously the knife wielder had to be sacked.

Of course the transgender person should have made a proper complaint against the coworker much earlier. I have little time for pronoun nonsense but if one employee of that shop was deliberately and repeatedly being mean then that should be an HR issue.

I've worked in places where a bully has deliberately used the wrong name for a person all the damn time: like calling Jason James just to be a dick. It is not OK.

Of course, if the person genuinely is making mistakes not being a dick then a little bit of compassion for each other would go a long way.

There simply isn't enough information to know if this was bullying or snowflake-ism. Then again, there was no prior complaint and a harrasment order was granted.

I think HR did OK on this one. Sad situation, handles properly by courts (the order) and HR (the sacking). The HR article seems quite sensible to me.

Beerincomechampagnetastes

Yep juells the bitch was obviously asking for it.

That isn't what I'm saying. The knife-wielder obviously had MH issues, I wouldn't have wanted to work with them. It does sound like bullying from the other worker, though. Are we not allowed say if we think someone was bullied?

Yeah. The appropriate response to the perception of being bullied is to pull a knife on someone.

That'll teach the bitch to mis-gender a colleague.

In the sanitised speech of the assessors here, could anyone say that given the description of the 'misgendering', threatening someone with a knife was a proportionate reaction to a perceived offence?

Have we taken leave of our senses? How addled do you have to be by the ridiculous nature of the current debate, to read about someone pulling a knife on someone for using a neutral word they didn't like, and see it as a response that could be in any way justified?

The purpose of framing people (usually women) saying the wrong thing / saying nasty things as equivalent as physical violence

Is so that physical violence can be done as "defense".

In this case it sounds like the person who was saying the wrong thing all the time could have been beign nasty >> line manager HR is the route to take with bullying

Not threatenign to stab them to death.

It would be helpful to know the State this occured in (though I guess it is most likely New York) Trans rights do vary considerably across the states and in a significant number they have very few rights.

In no way am I justifying pulling a knife but the obvious route of going to HR may not have been a viable option as they could have just been sacked for complaining.

I’ve learned that if anyone threatens you with a knife in the workplace you better press criminal charges because if you don’t, HR will say it was your fault.

juell

I will not be complicit in defending the indefensible.
There is absolutely no situation upon which the knife weilder was excusable.

Wow, the amount of times I’ve been called a bitch or a whore by a man, grabbed and groped by them, and despite my difficult past, I’ve never taken a knife to them. Funny that.

THE RULES OF MISOGYNY

1st rule of misogyny: Women are responsible for what men do.

4th rule of misogyny: Women's opinions are violence against men thus male violence against women is justified.

And especially for Juells

9th rule of misogyny: Men always know the "real reasons" for everything women do and say.

In no way am I justifying pulling a knife but the obvious route of going to HR may not have been a viable option as they could have just been sacked for complaining.

Except that, yes, you are justifying their behaviour.

Times article today, 'Rapist, Karen White, in women’s jail ‘was trans faker’

(extract)
"Neighbours at Elphin Court in Mytholmroyd, West Yorkshire, including a transgender woman, recalled how White made little effort to transition. “David just walked into his flat one day as David and walked out the next day as Karen,” she said. When an elderly man used the pronoun “he”, White called the police to report it as a hate crime.

The neighbours said that White “ruled Elphin Court with fear”, threatening an elderly disabled woman and setting off fire alarms, and had been found guilty of stabbing a resident." (continues)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rapist-karen-white-in-women-s-jail-was-trans-faker-lbcwjp8jc

Karen White aka David Thompson & Stephen Wood has a long history of violent offences including many against women and chldren.

I have no idea how you got to that point. There is a whole scope of choices between going to HR and pulling a knife.

Going to HR may not have been an option, we don't know the legal status of the involved state, the next option isn't pulling a knife though.

So no I didn't justify their behaviour at all.

I think if someone pulls a knife you should pull a gun. That's the Chicago way.

Or just a bigger knife. That's the Crocodike Dundee way.

I learnt all my life lessons from the movies.

Crocodike might be the most Freudian Freudian slip I've ever made.

In no way am I justifying pulling a knife but the obvious route of going to HR may not have been a viable option as they could have just been sacked for complaining.

Which they could take to an industrial tribunal and win.

Good luck with that when you take a knife to someone.

Some states in the US you can be sacked for being transgender.

But anyway I give up, no interest in discussion and twisting what people say.

'That's the Chicago way'

I think if we're modelling HR disputes on the story of Al Capone, there's a problem right there...

Crocodike would make an excellent user name

I have a long name. I don't mind being called by my full name, or one shortened version of it. I don't care much for another shortened version of it, but will roll with it if it's used by someone I won't see again or very often. There's a version of my name that I loathe, and despite pointing this out one of my former colleagues used to call me it every single time.

Now I know that I could have just threatened her with a knife - hey presto! No problemo!

My goodness. It reads like an excuse for men who beat women. ‘You drove me to it. If only you didn’t answer back. You shouldn’t have burned the dinner. Etc’

At least all the women that have been abused by men, throughout their lives, because they are GIRLS/WOMEN, have a perfect excuse for pulling knives on the next misogynistic man she has to deal with.

looks in knife drawer and thinks of all the misogynistic men I think I’m going to need some extra knives. 🤔

I find it concerning that someone can be triggered so badly. That's a mental health issue for which the person needs support. Threatening to knife someone is not reasonable or balanced behaviour and is totally unacceptable.

That's a mental health issue for which the person needs support.

Why should it be assumed that they have a mental health issue? I would have assumed it was more of a male aggressive reaction rather than mental illness.

My takeaway is that male violence remains male violence regardless of someone's preferred pronouns. The knife wielder sounds like a dangerous nutter.

Though I wish my takeaway featured Peking duck instead...

Have we taken leave of our senses? How addled do you have to be by the ridiculous nature of the current debate, to read about someone pulling a knife on someone for using a neutral word they didn't like, and see it as a response that could be in any way justified?

I haven't said it was a reasonable response. It was bonkers. But the person obviously had MH issues, and I find it difficult to believe that this was a simple case of 'woman makes mistake, misgenders trans person and gets threatened with a knife'. Some people, and 'people' includes women, see that someone is upset by something and they keep chipping away, always claiming it was a mistake or a joke or they didn't mean it or don't be so sensitive. If the person who made the threat wasn't trans would you not allow a tiny teeny hint of wondering if the other party had hit on something that got a good reaction every time?