Using mixed changing facilities after assault

[bitworriedaboutthisnow]

Please can I ask for positive experiences of mixed changing villages and some "get over it" advice? Or any type of advice?

My workplace is building a new big sports gym which will have entirely gender neutral facilities, lots of private cubicles in larger communal areas with joint showers. I only found out about this when others were talking about it in the changing rooms.

When it opens I'm fairly certain I won't be able to use it anymore (to do with an assault I went through), and neither will the young Muslim students or the friendly older local women, that's what they were talking about.

I'm guessing the gym has done their research and worked out that they don't mind losing some memberships, so I'm thinking that it's safer to stay quiet and never go again - but would it be worth saying something?

On a related note, if you've ever been badly assaulted (being vague in case this somehow ever gets connected to me), have you ever got to the point where you're completely confident without any flashbacks or fear at all in these situations? Would you use these without a worry and am I worrying over nothing here?

After years of therapy and CBT I'm a lot stronger than I used to be but yes, I admit that men in some situations still scare the hell out of me, especially the loud swaggering sort.

I feel like such a worthless nobody sometimes and all this makes me feel more so.

I am really sorry to hear about your situation bitworried. I don’t have any useful advice, but I wanted to let you know I read your post & heard your concern.

Thank you boatyardblues, that's kind of you.

I'm really sorry, bitworried. The gym is still being designed? Are they consulting on it? A letter to your work sounds like a good idea, I think. You could send it anonymously, if you're not confident about it, even one just asking for consultation on the issue.

bitworried. I'm afraid I don't have any useful suggestions (though Scrimshaw's is worth a try) - this is incredibly shit for you.

What do you mean by joint showers? If it is what it sounds like, I wouldn't go there. I think you should email HR and explain why you won't go though. So should all the others. This is surely discrimination on religious grounds as well?

The only way I would find this acceptable would be if there was a large, fully lockable cubicle containing a shower, mirror, hairdryer, and room to store clothes, so that you could enter and exit fully clothed.

Like Peak, I would only be happy using a large, fully lockable cubicle containing a shower, mirror, hairdryer, and room to store clothes, so that you could enter and exit fully clothed, in these circumstances. I just like to keep covered. Especially with work colleagues

I would be asking for consultation.

The swimming pool I go to is all mixed, open showers obviously keeping costume on with individual cubiculed showers for naked showering. It works fine for us as a family. Not sure it would work in a gym though.

Shanna I think that the difference is that if you are in a gym, you won't have a costume on- you will need to take off all your clothes to shower and then put on new ones. I am largely OK with a fully open shower area before you enter the pool, as long as you don't have to undress in a mixed area and there are options for single cubicles. But in a gym, you would have to either strip off or not shower at all (which won't be good if you're heading to work straight after and is just generally a bit gross).

Every swimming pool I’ve ever been to has open showers within the pool area and communal cubicles (single and family), you shower in your swimwear then dry and change in a cubicle.

Is this what the new set up will be? If so, what are your concerns surrounding it?

lots of private cubicles in larger communal areas with joint shower

They cannot possibly be suggesting there are communal , naked , mixed showers.

Every swimming pool
Only the OP is talking about a gym and not a swimming pool

I use a swimming pool with a changing room. We have individual locking cubicles of various sizes, open showers by the pool, and private locking showers. Costumes must be worn in all communal areas. There are also seperate men and women's toilets.
So far I haven't heard of any 'incidents', and personally I'm happy to use them, though I do go at quite a quiet time, and try and get an end shower, and keep checking for phones etc (there is a gap at the top and bottom of the cubicle). I will be honest , I've never been seriously assaulted or raped, and I'm not sure how I would feel if I was. Swimming is very important to me for my physical and mental health, and I'm willing to accept the small risk.
I would not use a communal single sex changing room or one without locking cubicles, mainly because I 've read stories on here about women who don't respect other women's boundaries and think it's fine to have their partners or older male children wander in and out. A properly designed unisex changing village is better in my opinion.

The OP is talking about a gym, not a swimming pool.

I literally have not been in a gym since I left school but presumably the owners cannot possibly mean they are offering communal, mixed, naked showers?

You've clearly been through a lot and are staying strong. This kind of setup is becoming the norm everywhere. Businesses will do their research on potential loss and gaining of members and its clear their demographic in this case. Vote with your feet and go somewhere thats kept single sex changing, if any still exist.

You wonder what it will take to make centers realise there needs to be at least some strictly female facilities retained.

Lass I'm not sure gym or pool makes much difference, not that that helps OP. Same issues of privacy or lack of. Assuming we're indeed talking lots of cubicles not actual open plan changing and showering for men and women, any common decency would rule that out.

Sorry you have to deal with this OP.

My local pool has one massive unisex/mixed sex/gender neutral unsupervised room with cubicles with gaps around them so you are often changing next to blokes who can hear you and if they were minded to, they could easily look over or under the cubicle sides at you. Or just pause outside the doors which have gaps around them. I hate it.

Because of this I don’t use the pool alone late at night because it’s quiet in the changing rooms then (and also less busy in the pool, which would be nicer to swim in).

There is a thread about the higher risk that women face in mixed sex changing rooms which the Times just revealed statistics about:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3353054-andrew-gilligan-in-the-times-sex-pests-target-unisex-change-rooms?pg=1&order=

I think you should say something. And maybe talk to any other women - the ones you mentioned - who wouldn't be able to use the gym either.

Get a hold of the Equalities Act legislation: you could claim the need for sex-segregated changing areas for women, under the Equalities Act.

If they move to unisex facilities, you will be unable because of your sex to use them (98% of sexual violence against women is committed by men). You will be discriminated against because of their actions. And your Muslim & Jewish colleagues will be discriminated against on grounds of sex and religion.

Have a look at the "Fair Play for Women" website about the rights of women to single-sex accommodation for things where they will be vulnerable to attack - changing rooms would be in that category, I think.

But do make a fuss. You shouldn't have to, but you need to. Or at least tell them they've lost your custom & cash, as you'll be using a different gym.

Thinking about perhaps the gym is trying to avoid any issues over self-ID and the trans agenda??

I would not use a single sex facility which required me to be naked in front of other women.

If what they are offering are individual locking cubicles and private locking showers that avoids having to deal with self ID.

I use a gym which has separate male & female locker rooms. They have cubicles, but I tend not to use them. I don't walk around naked or "flaunting" myself naked - I just get on with it, usually with a towel draped over my back as I'm putting on my underwear.

I'm not really bothered by other women changing. But I'm really not sure how I'd feel about a woman wandering around naked in the (quite large) locker room. And I think I would find it really unsettling if that "woman" actually had a penis ...

But would I be allowed to say anything to the gym management? Not sure about that.

If what they are offering are individual locking cubicles and private locking showers that avoids having to deal with self ID
Having one communal changing room also deals with the self-ID issue.

If all sexes are in one changing room together, there would be no issue with trans rights as there would be no separation of changing areas.

Even though I think that the communal changing room is ridiculous

But such a changing room would contravene the Equalities Act, I think, if a gym member couldn't use it because of her religion and/or sex. And of course, the religious requirement for sex-segregation could affect male gym members as well.

It's all a bloody mess. For 0.1% of the population, who could be accommodated in a 3rd optional unisex space.

My gym (which is bargain basement) has 5 individual showers with half obscured doors. A small communal changing area and three toilets. Most people get changed discreetly in the communal area under a towel. Some of the shyer girls use the loos(which is annoying if you need to pee) if there was only individual cubicles you wouldn't be able to fit 1/5th of us in and the cost would rise accordingly and I wouldn't be able to afford to use it.

But such a changing room would contravene the Equalities Act, I think, if a gym member couldn't use it because of her religion and/or sex. And of course, the religious requirement for sex-segregation could affect male gym members as well

If no one is naked in front of anyone else why would they not be able to use it?

Talk to your Muslim and Jewish colleagues. Send a letter that you all cosign to HR to complain. Get the FPFW factsheet and send it to HR. Is free or subsidised gym membership part of your workplace benefits? If so, try to get your union involved.

Don't have the same women send emails each time and don't have the same women meet HR each time. It's important that you take turns so that your employer isn't able to single out one or a few of you as "ringleaders".