Mixed Sex Toilets in Schools

[Nicknamesalltaken]

I’m a Governor at a primary school.

There’s some discussion going on in a FB group I’m on about switching to mixed sex toilets. All the other governors seem to be happy with it, saying they are more efficient, will stop bullying. How do the manage at home sharing etc etc. Toilet cubicles are floor to ceiling but handbasins are separate.

I am very against mixed sex facilities if that is all there is. Most, of not all, girls in their schools will have to deal with periods. They need separate facilities to be able to do so, and not be embarrassed by it.

Not one person shares my view. I need to post on the thread with firm arguements (I am trying to avoid the self-Id issue as I want to explain this from the point of view of the rights of women and girls). I want to tell them that girls matter.

If we take away single sex spaces now, girls and women won’t feel entitled to them. They are necessary for a reason.

I thought that, by law, schools had to provide single sex facilities? Can anyone help me with this? If toilets are sealed units but washing facilities shared?

Am I going mad here? Or have I spent too long on these feminism boards? It’s not me is it?

I have to run but there are some relevant links/discussion for you in: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3357167-unisex-school-toilets-daughter-refusing-to-use-them

If you are a school governor do you go to the planning or staff meetings, there is a lot of online info on school toilets, what about the boys point of view, do they want to share toilet facilities with girls. Aren't they just as entitled to single sex facilities.

School governor business should be discussed in an organised and minuted meeting, not on Facebook Ffs!

I work for the public sector (not in a school) and we have three toilet facilities - one for females, one for males and one mixed sex. Could that be a solution that everyone is happy with?

Why do they think it will stop bullying?? I don't get it. Are they saying that bullying always takes place between members of the same sex?

Talk loudly and at length about periods. Especially if most of your fellow governors are male, they won't be aware of what it's like. They will be paying for proper sanitary bins in every cubicle, won't they?

Why can't boys have urinals which are far better for them than trying to pee in a toilet? Have they considered that people won't want to use wee covered toilet seats? Have they asked the cleaners who have to deal with toilets their opinions?

What is the problem they are trying to solve? And how much will it cost to convert? Frankly I would be amazed if they have that money to spare.

I also thought that the legislation required separate toilet and washing facilities, so enclosed cubicles which had washbasins were fine, cubicles with communal washbasins not fine.

Mixed sex toilets are an incredibly bad idea, especially with wash basins outside the toilet. Where will sanitary bins be?

You can download Transgender Trend's school resource pack here, it should have the answers you need.

www.transgendertrend.com/transgender-schools-guidance/

They are not allowed to have single sex toilets for children over the age of 8, the law is perfectly clear on this, schools have a statutory duty to provide toilets segregated by sex for children over the age of 8.

Hold on a mo, I'll search out the guidance.

I would quote legislation and I agree bring up the period thing.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/410294/Advice_on_standards_for_school_premises.pdf

Page 5

You'd be open to a legal challenge if you didn't comply with the law.

They are not allowed to have single sex toilets for children over the age of 8, the law is perfectly clear on this, schools have a statutory duty to provide toilets segregated by sex for children over the age of 8

Well, until there is a change of law, this trumps everything, doesn't it

And go on and on and on about periods.

And also, talk about the prevalence of sexist bullying and how it's ignored by everyone.

The loos at my child's secondary school are mixed but they are also self contained and private, the teachers also use them too.

There is no door on the toilet area so no opportunities for having a secret ciggie like everyone did when I was at school. The loos have doors that go from floor to ceiling (I hope that makes sense) so no peering over. Inside each cubicle there is a a wash basin and sanitary bin.

Before I saw the loos I was sceptical about unisex but changed my mind after seeing them. The pupils use them for their intended purpose and it stops the hanging about and messing about that can go on.

I think self contained unisex are ok. I remember at work they announced that the new showers would be mixed and everyone was but they are like self contained bathrooms.

gylly - that type is legal.

But the ones the OP is describing, the sinks are outside so mixed washing hands space.

Not legal.

I honestly can't understand how anyone involved with girls over 8 doesn't understand that some of them will be dealing with periods and need privacy. I will raise merry hell if this ever comes up in any of the schools I work in, and it's by no means a "modern thing" because there were girls who'd started in my own primary back in the 80s. That's why the law says "separate facilities from 8yo".

Get hold of the pastoral lead and point this out to them, in no uncertain terms. Talk to the Y5/6 teachers and TAs - you'll find the female ones at least quite often have a stash of pads just in case. Get them onside.

Thanks everyone, so much. I’m making my way through the posts and links.

I should clarify that this is not the governing board that I am part of (sorry, I wasn’t at all clear) but rather a closed group of Governors around the UK - none of us are connected, all different schools in different areas.

The majority seem to have floor to ceiling enclosed toilet facilities intended for one person. This seems to be in keeping with the legal requirement. Washing facilities, however, do not seem to be required to be single sex or within the cubicle.

So although they are within the law, Its all practical, efficient and allows passive supervision, I don’t feel that it’s best for the children.

I really do appreciate everyone’s input on this. It’s really helpful. Thanks for taking the time.

I've worked in a Secondary school with mixed-sex toilets. There were issues with pupils using them inappropriately (sexual activity), girls not wanting to use them when they had their periods (and choosing to use the disabled toilets instead). Staff also had unisex toilets, and there were big issues with differing standards of hygiene (filthy toilets left, which hadn't happened before). They did not have floor to ceiling doors, if I saw a male member of staff going in as I was approaching, I'd either go to the disabled toilet on a different floor or go later. I absolutely hated them, felt so uncomfortable/anxious using them (have been assaulted multiple times before, was assaulted as a child).

Shouldn't school governors know that schools must provide single sex toilets by law?

Mixed sex toilets were brought in when I was at high school.

It was awful.

The toilet seats were always covered in wee from the boys.

There was one incident in which some boys fished out a tampon from the sanitary bin after a girl had been in the loo, and walked out in to the playground, twirling it by the string, calling her a dirty bitch. She was then subject to people saying that she was not a virgin, as she used tampax.

More than one couple allegedly had sex in there.

The school ended up putting a red rope down the middle of the room, and having a boys side and a girls side, with separate entrances.

They also installed CCTV -IN. THE. BATHROOM. (not in the stalls of course!)

What is the thinking behind the idea that it will stop bullying? Girls are too often used by schools to help address the behaviour of boys. For example, being seated between disruptive boys to help mediate their behaviour, at the expense of the girl’s own education and social experience. It’s not girls’ responsibility to mediate boys’ behaviour. Equally, girls should not lose privacy and dignity as an easy means to improve the behaviour of boys.

Has anyone
Asked the girls if they would be comfortable sharing loos with boys

I wouldn't have an issue with it as long as there is a full time loo assistant to monitor things, otherwise whats stopping boys and girls mucking about, bullying each other and deliberately using the wrong toilet. How do they think it reduces bullying? Is the design planned one huge area with a door, another door inside leading to girls one side, door leading to boys the other side and mixed area for handwashing?

I started at ten, in junior school. Learning to cope with periods does not need boys in close proximity.

Male toilets smell different - I do not like the smell and would not like to make children accept it.

And there are cases of sexual assault being reported in schools, including younger children:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41836303

As some people appear to believe that an 11 year old girl is happy dealing with her first periods in the company of 16 year old boys ffs then try asking whether they have actually consulted pupils? We've spent the last few decades insisting on the importance of pupil voice yet suddenly, as soon as a few middle aged men transitioning to women start making demands, all sense goes out of the window as adults roll over to remove sex segregated spaces from children as quickly as they can.

ASK THE PUPILS AND PARENTS !!

Sorry for shouting but really...
This is the most recent guidance (brief and to the point) for schools (June 2018) - guidance about toilets and washing facilities so that's sinks and changing rooms) are the last point:

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/719398/Gender-separation-guidance.pdf