How to deal with DH response re trans issues

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I've read a lot of threads on FWR over the last few months and feel as though I know where I stand on things. However I am having issues bringing DH "over" to the cause as it were and don't know how to deal with it.
I've explained why I'm not happy with self-ID, shown him recent articles eg the one about Karen White etc but he keeps telling me that these are only a small percentage of things to worry about in the grand scheme of things.
We have three young DDs so I feel this is something I want him to get on board with (and I do have to say that on a more general basis, he is quite the feminist so I can't argue about that), but he keeps saying that we have bigger things to worry about, eg how Brexit will impact us as a family/country etc. His point is that the proportion of crimes committed by men who self-ID as women is far smaller than those committed by men against girls/women so I should focus my anger where it matters. I'm finding myself getting too emotional about his response to have a rational discussion to point out why I think he should care more.
Can anybody wiser come up with reasons to make him become more concerned?
[Might not be posting again until morning so please bear with me....]

Get him to Google Karen White. He needs to do it, not you, so he follows the links.

Then when that is done leave terfisaslur.com up where he can see it (but not your dd's. I'm not saying either will peak him but it might give him an idea.

What would he say if it was his daughter who raised the question?

Just because he personally can't see the issue doesn't mean he should be dismissive and minimise it for others.

I never thought it would affect us either until my dds were subject to trans agenda workshops in schools where they were told that if they didn't like their bodies they could trans . It messes with their heads . And they're only 12/13.

Each time I've tried to point these things out to him, he just says that in the grand scheme of things, these issues are just one tiny percentage of what our DDs will have to worry about in life.

So your husband would just sit there and let a man follow one of his daughters into a toilet and he would do nothing?

In that case love you need a divorce.

My DP also identified strongly with the sports aspect of it. Haven't read the whole thread but anyone who doesn't get it, after hearing about that rapist put in a woman's prison, needs their head examining.

Has he seen these stories?

The recent case of the two girls in Scotland who were abused in a supermarket toilet?

The various cases in Target? One involving a girl's dad going after one of the perverts?

He should be concerned, for you, for the girls. It is a male privilege not to be bothered.
Brexit won't get you raped, but this might.

Does he have other women in his life? Mother, sister? Would he be happy for his mother to be on a hospital ward with men or given intimate care by one?

Like the PP (although I'm not a man) I have been on MN for over 12 years and I diagree (unsurprisingly) with his pro trans views. These boards are full of balanced and articulate arguments.
Saboteurs will always use the same old tropes to try to derail the thread.

I've had, still have, issues of equality at home, but DH has moments of getting it and not.

I'm sure he'd help me stick up penis stickers ( sticking in woke male loos) Hypothetically speaking, of course

I know that the plopper has long since plopped off, but I just wanted to circle back to the point about gender critical thought being some weird minority extremist view.

I, along with dozens of other women, have recently stepped away from the internet and gone out into the real world, onto your average high street, to ask your average man and woman in the street to fill in the consultation on the GRA. When you ask them if they think a woman can have a penis, I can assure you that 90+% of them think that's utterly bonkers. And it takes them about 30 seconds to work out why self ID is a terrible law to propose.

This isn't a niche view, and it's nothing like being in the KKK, you silly sausage.

Why don't you pop off out of your bubble, get down the high street and ask people if they genuinely think a man can become a woman and that a penis can be a female sex organ? Let me know how you go with that.

Good luck OP. I'm all for political disagreement in a marriage (Iefty married to a toryboy here), but you need to at least feel like there's basic respect that you've arrived at your views through a reasoned process

I've met three transing teens (female to male) in the last two years. All have childhood diagnosis of ASD, MH, and emotional behavioural difficulties. All were aggressive, highly emotional and confused. They were on hormones/meds or about to be put on them. They were uninformed of the side affects of the drugs they were taking. A few years ago they would have been coming out as lesbian, not thinking they should take hormones and have surgery to try and 'change' somehow. It's scary.

I agree Sophocles

The views expressed on this board about TWANW and about female penises etc. are not minority views. I am curious as to whether the people claiming that such views are 'niche' really believe this or whether it is a tactic.

I think the views expressed on this board about misogyny/ hatred of women motivating many trans-supporters are probably the only ones that are specific/ niche to posters on this board.

OP - It doesn't sound like your DH is taking in the bigger picture. Sure, the chances of being followed into a toilet for criminal purposes is low, women and girls (children?) are statistically at far greater risk from family members and close friends as well a myriad of other examples that I'm sure others can think of.

However, self ID and the impact of it are just another part of the wider issues of eroding of womens rights, and the exertion of patriarchal power. The knock on effects, not just the toilet example, as illustrated by other posters will be wide and affect healthcare, social security, sports etc. The list is potentially very long. He needs to appreciate the implications before it will sink in. Unfortunately, as a man he is unlikley to be able to appreciate this because he will never be a potential victim.

I’m a feminist with a different view..

😂 You love the menz and their feelz.

Take your OH to twitter and show him the #transgirl and #girlslikeus hashtags and watch him

If women is a social term and a biological term then we need to be crystal clear in legislation.

Half this problem would go away if transwomen would 1. Define their friggin terms, clearly, succinctly and non-circular - gender for a start! and 2. Allowed the 'biological woman' meaning group to keep its own term to describe and protect our biologically relevant reality.

Also, as a parent of daughters, what does he think of the absolutely massive spike in teen girls presenting with rogd?

My dh is onside in the sense that he thinks twaw is a crock if shite, and that these bourgeois twats wouldn't last a minute amongst his blue collar colleagues. But he does think it's a red herring issue, that it will fade and die without much consequence, and that "you can't build a revolution based on trans"
It is quite frustrating...

The problem with the niche opinion that the word "woman" is a social definition and can be claimed by whoever wants it is that this is not the dictionary definition and it's not a definition agreed by most of our society.

Almost all people agree that woman = adult human female.

To say "women" means something else or adult human female + male person identifying as one is not agreed upon so is not a definition. It's just not a truth.

A male person identifying as female is a transwoman. They already have this definition for themselves.

These people can't both be women and transwomen because the two describe very different things.

But wrt your post op I'd give it time. Most people reach peak trans eventually.

Some great advice here.

Get your DH a subscription to The Times, maybe? I've not had to raise the issue with my DH at all. He told me about the smear of GC female academics covered in the Times this morning before I'd read it.

Start showing him a photo a day of a trans athlete like Laurel Hubbard, or video like the two transgirls winning in high school races, destroying the competition. This isn't a victimless thing, girls will be losing out on college scholarships because of this. 30 states in the US now allow athletes to compete in 'the gender they identify as'. How is this fair to girl athletes? What's it doing to women's sport?

His point is that the proportion of crimes committed by men who self-ID as women is far smaller than those committed by men against girls/women

Self ID will allow all those men far more access and opportunity. The issue goes far beyond any crime a trans person might commit. The issue is that by removing women’s right to safe spaces etc, those predatory men get access.

Ask him how he’d feel if dds could never use a women’s loo, change room etc again but had to go in the men’s. Or if dds were put in a tent and communal showers at guides with male bodied people.

I know people are saying he doesn't have to agree with you, which is generally true. But this is about something that affects you, not him. He should at least be listening to and prepared to really try and understand why you are afraid.

Point out to him the simple reality of his attitude:

He say we when he perceives a threat to himself and his family

He say don't be silly when he perceives the threat, but acknowledges it isn't a threat to himself.

He ranks you and his daughters below himself when it comes to being safe! He chooses to accept that you, as women will experience an increased threat, but that's OK, cos it is small and it won't affect him!

He isn't a feminist, he is a common or garden, every day misogynist.

Don't try to convince him. That will happen naturally as he starts to notice the crazy. It's like when you learn a new word then you hear it everywhere.

If he is correct then over time you will sway towards his opinion.

I'd really just drop it. Men don't understand how vulnerable women are and the aggressions and microaggressions women face daily. They don't get that constant vigilance is our normal from puberty. You've given him information that will lead him to notice various sex-based rights issues and look more critically at them. Leave it there.

he says there's more chance of them getting run over by a bus or attacked by a man still presenting as a man than there is of them getting hurt by a MTF

Well that's true, of course, but it's not the point. What he doesn't get -because he is a man - is that every single time a woman is alone with a man she doesn't know/cannot trust; and every single time she is by herself, but a man might arrive; and every single time she is in public but in a situation where men be aggressive towards her, she has to be on her guard. That's dozens of times every day for most women - going out to the car in the morning if it's still dark, parking the car in a large car park, walking to the bus stop, etc, etc. It's so ingrained, we barely even notice we do it, but it's exhausting and confining. It limits our freedom in a way that 99% of men will never experience. The one thing that will make it worse is if we can no longer be confident that even the tiny number of safe, women only spaces are safe or women only. It's not MTF we fear (by and large), it's all the other men who will use self-ID to take away the tiny number of spaces that women own.

he says there's more chance of them getting run over by a bus or attacked by a man still presenting as a man than there is of them getting hurt by a MTF

I bet he expects you to avoid buses though. right?

You can't avoid every violent male if you have nowhere to go away from them.

Ask him if he'd be happy if it were one of his daughters attacked by a man pretending to be trans in a loo.

After all, she's only one girl, right, small beer in the great scheme of things.

Someone's got to be the fall out, right?

This is like those people who, when someone posts about being against animal cruelty, they go off about how you should be worrying instead about "children in Syria". As though you can't care about both.

XXcstastic* yes, except it is worse than that. The most violence women face statistically is from intimate partner violence, and that happens to women from all walks of life, perpetrated from all walks of life.
So one’s DD then would not have the safety of same sex rape counselling, Women’s Aid or refuge. Safety psychologically to heal but as recent cases have shown, physically as well.

How does he know his DD’s will never need those services? Sexual and intimate partner violence is not something that happens to ‘others’. It happens in one shape or form to most women.