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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Mermaids

26 replies

LanguageAsAFlower · 05/09/2018 19:54

I need to explain to someone in an education environment who has no interest in the GC/feminist side of anything why we shouldn't have Mermaids in to train staff. All I've said so far is that they are controversial. I probably only have one chance to convince him that this is a terrible idea. I know lots of stories/ ideological reasons why I don't want them in, but I need to organise this into 3/4 good clear, easy to understand reasons why letting them train our staff is not ok.

Sorry if this is vague. Trying not to make it too outing

OP posts:
Furx · 05/09/2018 19:57

They are a pressure group with an agenda, not a neutral training provider

Wanderabout · 05/09/2018 20:01
  1. This piece has info on Mermaids pushing a medical line that the NHS considers unethical which you could summarise with a link:
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/why-are-some-mps-trying-to-shut-down-the-transgender-debate/amp/
  1. This article talks about a court case Mermaids were involved in. There's also a Times one if you have a subscription. Again you could summarise with a link to the article: www.google.co.uk/amp/s/metro.co.uk/2017/10/08/charity-advised-mum-to-force-her-son-7-to-live-as-a-girl-6984649/amp/
LanguageAsAFlower · 05/09/2018 20:01

Furx any idea of good clear examples to illustrate this to someone who knows not a lot about it though

OP posts:
LanguageAsAFlower · 05/09/2018 20:02

Yes Wander this is what I was thinking

OP posts:
HotRocker · 05/09/2018 20:02

Even Thailand felt the need to change the law after the actions of their CEO.

Beamur · 05/09/2018 20:05

Point them towards some alternative providers?

IAmLurkacus · 05/09/2018 20:05

They were mentioned/critiscised? In a fairly long judgementby a judge who had to remove a child from a mother they were ‘supporting’.

thebewilderness · 05/09/2018 20:06

Their training is in violation of the 2010Equality Act with regard to protected characteristics.
Their training brands as transgender any child who deviates from rigidly defined sex role stereotypes.
Their training is in conflict with safeguarding requirements.

WaddIelikeapenguin · 05/09/2018 20:07

Like Beamur says go two pronged - this is the problem & here is the solution.

Noqont · 05/09/2018 20:23

Their training is in violation of the 2010Equality Act with regard to protected characteristics.
Their training brands as transgender any child who deviates from rigidly defined sex role stereotypes
Their training is in conflict with safeguarding requirements.

Exactly this.

Wanderabout · 05/09/2018 20:26

There was a guardian article about school packs that might be useful. And The Herald ran a piece on child safeguarding concerns by Maggie Mellon. No specific mention of Mermaids but raised some significant issues about approaches by trans lobby orgs like that.

Bingpot · 05/09/2018 20:31

Inform them about Transgender Trend and their packs for schools as an alternative

speakingwoman · 05/09/2018 20:38

"Hmm, Mermaids, by their own admission, seem to have turned into a political organisation and there has been a court case where they were restrained from having any further contact with a child. I wonder whether it might lead to trouble in future.

[what's the solution? is there anything on the Tavistock website? NHS websites? something neutral?]

speakingwoman · 05/09/2018 20:39

or just "Hmmm, I suppose the problem is that they're so controversial...."

newtlover · 05/09/2018 23:35

I can't face checking it out, but we were recommended them (don't ask) so i looked on their ws, so these were people THEY selected as their public face, there was a mother on there with, I think, a 7 year old, saying their child had identified as trans for 3-4 years, so, in other words, they thin a 3 or 4 year old can be trans - I don't think you can get more barking than that

speakingwoman · 06/09/2018 00:02

I think you should recommend getting the NSPCCin instead. They will give the wider context.

IAmLurkacus · 06/09/2018 07:36

We’re NSPCC not trained by mermaids? I’d recommend them the transgender trend pack, can you still download that for free? That has to be a bonus for cash strapped academies.

AndYetItMoves · 06/09/2018 07:52

The trouble is there are no other alternative training providers out there, are there?

JackyHolyoake · 06/09/2018 08:17

Mermaids is controversial because its priority is to treat every child as transgender whenever they express behaviour that is different from expectations of either sex and refuses to countenance any alternative reasons for that behaviour. It is a very blinkered organisation with an extremely narrow focus.

tiredandweary · 06/09/2018 08:31

I'd hand over the transgendertrend schools pack. Also take a look at the draft SRE guidelines. There a good section on a school's responsibility to check the credentials of organisations / individuals training in schools. Para 48 extract here:

"As with any visitor, schools are responsible for ensuring that they check the visitor or visiting organisation’s credentials. Schools should also ensure that the teaching delivered by the visitor fits with their planned programme and their published policy. It is important that schools discuss the detail of how the visitor will deliver their sessions and ensure that the content is age-appropriate and accessible for the pupils. Schools should ask to see the materials visitors will use in the sessions as well as a session plan in advance, so that they can coplan,
including ensuring that it is adequately differentiated to meet the full range of pupils’ needs (e.g. special educational needs). It is important to agree how confidentiality will work in any lesson and that the visitor understands how safeguarding reports should be dealt with in line with school policy"

Might be worth suggesting that as some organisations are actively undermining aspects of safeguarding and use dodgy suicide statistics, the school should be equally careful with checking materials for those training staff.

Stilettosandan0venglove · 06/09/2018 08:38

The Transgender Trend pack can be downloaded for free, and you can request a printed copy too. It's very measured, and it takes account of the needs of all students, however they identify.

Links on their twitter:

mobile.twitter.com/Transgendertrd

ShotsFired · 06/09/2018 08:40

I am loathe to even suggest a possible amendment to the magnificent @thebewilderness, but...

Their training is in violation of the 2010Equality Act with regard to protected characteristics.
Their training brands as transgender any child who deviates from rigidly defined sex role stereotypes.
Their training is in conflict with safeguarding requirements.

I wouldn't call it "training". Ideally it'd be labelled as the propaganda it is, but that is not an effective term in this context (sounds too hysterical). So maybe reword it along the lines of:

Their information is agenda-driven and is in direct violation of the 2010 Equality Act with regard to protected characteristics.

Anlaf · 06/09/2018 09:02

there was a mother on there with, I think, a 7 year old, saying their child had identified as trans for 3-4 years, so, in other words, they thin a 3 or 4 year old can be trans - I don't think you can get more barking than that

I'm posting this example because it is still often claimed that this is not just toys and dresses, that this is a deeply held inner sense of identity. From Mermaids website

Kelly, 40, is mum to Adam, nine and Evie, seven, who transitioned to live as a girl 2015. Here Kelly, who is married to Andrew, 46, explains how Mermaids have helped her family. -
Kelly said:
“From the age of two we started to notice that Evie didn’t quite fit in. I thought that my son was going to be gay, but it became apparent that there was something more than that.

“Evie always wanted to play with dolls, and never had any interest in traditional boys toys, like cars or dinosaurs. We had an older son and the two could not have been more different.

“Evie loved bracelets and constantly wanted to wear one, and when I bought the children Guess Who? to play she unclipped all the female faces and put them in a handbag to carry around with her.

“Evie would look longingly at other little girls who were wearing dresses or skirts, and every time I picked her up from the childminder she would be have raided the dressing up box for a princess costume. She would come to the door to meet me in a sparkly pink dress and a tiara with a big smile on her face.

“At other children’s houses she would love putting on the princess outfits, and would have a meltdown when she had to take them off as it was time to leave.

“I wasn’t sure how to cope with how Evie was behaving. Some family members said I should try and make her be a boy, get her to play with boys’ toys and dress her in boys’ clothes, but it became a daily battle. Every time we went to the supermarket she would make a beeline for the aisle with all the dolls and girls toys and get very upset when I told her they weren’t for her.

“I told myself it was a phase but the longer it went on, the more I realised that this wasn’t a temporary thing, it’s who Evie is.

VickyEadie · 06/09/2018 09:06

Kelly and Evie: proof offered by Mermaids that being 'trans' is all about your frock and toy choices.

It's a scandal of massive proportions, isn't it?

KimCheesePickle · 06/09/2018 09:11

Could you maybe link your piece into the Let Toys Be Toys campaign, which aims to dismantle gender stereotypes in toys/clothing etc. That whether dolls or trucks, they're suitable for all children, regardless of the sex of the child. That the Mermaids philosophy undermines this and actually upholds gender stereotypes and sex role socialisation. Child likes playing with their play kitchen, therefore they must be a girl. This encourages children into identifying with traditional/regressive life roles and aspirations - girls with being nurses/housewives; boys with being astronauts/scientists. It puts a limiting framework around children that influences their life opportunities as they grow into adults.

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