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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Telegraph article about NSPCC v MN users

58 replies

Angryresister · 03/09/2018 22:59

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/09/03/nspcc-mumsnet-row-defending-girl-guides-transgender-policy/

Apparently it is we that are the problem

OP posts:
Queenofthedrivensnow · 03/09/2018 23:03

Bollocks

arranfan · 03/09/2018 23:03

That's rather an odd slant on the web chat and the topic plus the questions that were posted...

But, yes, understood that MN posters are wrong.

WomblingWoman · 03/09/2018 23:05

It's good the story is running.

The NSPCC need to be damn careful right now in light of what's happening within the Green Party and the data on unisex vs single sex changing rooms.

carceralfeminist · 03/09/2018 23:07

You know, I don't think it was that bad.
Because there may be some people who read this line:

Users raised concerns about children who identify as female, but who were born male, sharing changing rooms, shower facilities and dormitories with other Girl Guides.

And then think: Well, those sound like very reasonable questions...

mimivanne · 03/09/2018 23:08

I hope they open a comments page

HotRocker · 03/09/2018 23:11

It would’ve been so much quicker and easier to come on here the other day and tell us precisely why we are wrong.

HavingALittleBabyToolshed · 03/09/2018 23:11

What I like about it is (on the mobile site anyway) the little drop in about the trans umbrella explains that trans doesn’t necessarily include SRS.

BettyDuMonde · 03/09/2018 23:32

I thought that was OK, actually.

Today’s AIBU thread has had a number of posters pop up saying they were sent to view the transphobia but having read the thread, realise that our questions are motivated by safeguarding (and we have plenty of evidence to back up our concerns). Maybe this will send us a few more?

In other news, this was in the side bar - can a subscriber give us a synopsis, please?

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/09/02/transgender-politics-world-say-thing-true/?li_source=LI&li_medium=li-recommendation-widget

carceralfeminist · 03/09/2018 23:39

This journalist wrote quite even pieces about the BACP guidelines and the Littman ROGD study. And there is significant emphasis on Mumsnet trying to defend free speech....
She ends the piece by quoting Justine:
"But we fundamentally believe that with a bit of an effort all round then we can allow all voices to be heard and that by allowing all sides to be heard we can move towards a constructive compromise," she said.
In any case, it's probably worth bumping some threads. Wink

senua · 03/09/2018 23:52

Good quote from Justine.

OnlyObjectivity · 04/09/2018 00:14

I liked the bit:

In a statement to the site the NSPCC said it "doesn’t consider there to be specific child protection concerns in relation to trans-inclusive policies."

  • because it shows the entire world how idiotic the NSPCC are being. Any reasonable parent would have concerns about an inpregnation-capable boy claiming to be lesbian and sharing overnight accommodation with girls.
JellySlice · 04/09/2018 01:20

"Trans young people are at particular risk of physical, sexual and emotional abuse from peers. This can heighten the risk of abuse by adults...There should be high-quality, statutory relationships and sex education, alongside strong school safeguarding policies, to ensure that all children are kept safe in schools."

The NSPCC are happy with the advice to keep children's gender-identity-related disclosures confidential? No child-safety issues in the way schools are advised to ignore the established best practice in safeguarding when it comes to trans.

Turph · 04/09/2018 01:35

It reads as very even handed to me.
Mumsnet users have built up a reputation for being particularly focused on transgender issues, and the stance of some members has been described as "transphobic".
What does that say? "Built up a reputation" makes mumsnetters sound feisty, and the "stance of some members " is a very qualified statement, and "transphobic" in quotation marks suggests the author is not convinced, and doesn't expect the readership to be.
More importantly what does it NOT say? Imagine the Guardian version.

"Transphobia is rife on alt-right parenting hate site" - Lily Madigan describes her anguish at the transphobia displayed on major UK website.
Or
Owen Jones - why do mums hate trans kids and what does this mean for open borders?

TimeLady · 04/09/2018 06:18

Any reasonable parent would have concerns about an inpregnation-capable boy claiming to be lesbian and sharing overnight accommodation with girls.

Woah, lightbulb moment! I never considered it in that way..,how naive of me. I had a image in my head of, I suppose, a confused quiet asexual teenager, when in fact, they're probably going to want a relationship like all the others that age. And if they're heterosexual, I guess they would see themselves as a 'lesbian'.

I find that confusion all so sad. What a mess.

LadybirdsAreBirds · 04/09/2018 06:21

Owen Jones seems to have lately decided to shut up about it and start deleting his Twats about the evils T**RFS. 'De-writing' history in order to not find himself on the Wrong Side of it

LadybirdsAreBirds · 04/09/2018 06:22

* fail there. No idea what a T*RF is

MaverickSnoopy · 04/09/2018 06:29

A staff member posted to say the event had been cancelled "because the questions here are so focused on gender identity, the feeling is that the NSPCC campaign itself and the NSPCC's specific safety messages are unlikely to get much of an airing."

Unlikely to get much of an airing.

Since when did people shy away from debate or from communicating policies "just in case".

NSPPC are an important charity. So why shy away from important issues. Especially if they've got it all locked down.

LadybirdsAreBirds · 04/09/2018 06:32

Being able to distinguish boys from girls and men from women, is pretty central to safeguarding

Girls being able to state the truth and be listened to is central to safeguarding

Girls and boys being protected from predatory adults is central to safeguarding

I don't understand why this is so controversial to the NSPCC

tiredandweary · 04/09/2018 06:47

Just to point out that the NSPCC recommends that boys and girls should not share bedrooms over the age of 10. Yet they see no issues whatsoever with a 16 year old boy identifying as a girl on an overnight stay with the Guides or getting changed for after school sports and sharing changing rooms and showers with 11 year old girls.

Why the danger in one scenario but not the other?

AndYetItMoves · 04/09/2018 06:53

It's one thing to have an insignificant labour volunteer throw a twitter strop, but it's quite another for the nspcc to ignore safeguarding questions from a group of mothers.

What exactly is going on, people will be asking. The more people see this a a safeguarding issue the better. Because that's what we've been saying all along, for years now.

KataraJean · 04/09/2018 07:06

I don’t think that came across as MN users are the problem, more that the NSPCC did not want to engage with MN users.

I think the uninformed reader might stumble at the phrase ‘transgender girl’.

ImPreCis · 04/09/2018 07:08

tiredandweary Exactly, and the parents of the girl won’t even be able to prep their daughter for the possibility, or object, or question safeguarding, as GirlGuiding regs say it must NOT be disclosed to parents than a trans girl will be present.

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 04/09/2018 08:43

De-writing' history in order to not find himself on the Wrong Side of it

Gutless wonder

happydappy2 · 04/09/2018 08:46

Shame the article didn’t mention the fact that trans women can work as Guide leaders & be in a safeguarding role on overnight stays, sleeping within close proximity to young girls & parents are not informed.

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