Man to woman; back to man; now changing back to woman again

[Mumsnut]

Blimey.

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-6067657/Transgender-lawyer-undergoes-gender-assignment-surgery-time.html

This person isn't trapped in the wrong body, they are trapped with a dysfunctioning brain. Hellish.

I do feel sorry for them trying to resolve an identity/ MH crisis this way. A prime example of why it is so damaging to have unquestioning affirmation, no MH care and access to surgery as a first resort not a last one.

But shit Even though I was a woman physically, in many ways I felt I still had a male brain. I was still interested in the world, what was happening, current affairs, business and sport, but the women I mixed with didn't share that interest to the same degree.

"In fact, I found being a woman rather shallow and limiting. So much depends on your appearance, at the expense of everything else. I wasn't interested in shopping

Not a misogynist at all.

This needs to go all over Twitter so people understand what gender ideology really means :(

" I grew up in Baghdad in the '60s and the '70s, so who would hear of anything about being transgender or having surgery?"

I am the first to admit I have no idea what Baghdad was like in the 60s and 70s.

Iran had the revolution in 1980-83 according to google . Iraq is a different country!
Google has some good pics eg scroll down

Homosexuality was illegal in the UK until 1967 when it was decriminalised.

My point is that the world changes, a lot, and to assume that Baghdad 50 years ago was similar to Iran now is a bit of a guess! And prob not very helpful.

" So much depends on your appearance, at the expense of everything else."

This though >> is what women (feminists) have been complaining about forever.

Again >> why do so many men have to experience it themselves / have someone very close experience it before they believe what women say? Why is our testimony worth so little?

What was with all that ‘women clearly have it better’ guff in the two older articles?

What a very sad life.

As a complete armchair psychologist, the "detransition" article is interesting:

"There is nothing I want more than to fall in love and get married," says 48-year-old Charles. "It is like a knife to my heart every time I am rejected.

Significant life events appear to be concurrent with decisions to change gender role...

First, the divorce from his wife, who reportedly left him for someone else, an acrimonious split and the loss of custody to his kids.

"I thought that if I gave her a nice house and she had plenty of money to spend at Harrods, she'd be happy, but she wasn't," says Charles who also admits he had a couple of affairs during his marriage.

"When she left me for another man, I was absolutely devastated and our split became acrimonious. I was prevented from seeing my children, which destroyed me. I'd been hugely successful building up a property portfolio, but at the time of our divorce the economy plunged and I lost a lot of money in the recession. I felt diminished as a man."

And then the connection to a doctor who was reprimanded by the GMC for not taking appropriate precautions.

Charles had his sex-change operation just six months after his first appointment with Dr Reid, and the day after a failed court battle to gain access to his children, who were then aged 12 and 13.

There is how Kane explains the interest with transsexualism:

As a teenager he'd had a crush on another boy and in his confusion he started going to gay and transvestite clubs, during which he came into contact with transsexuals.
...
"I met people at these transsexual clubs who'd kept saying how fantastic it was to be a woman, how great the sex was, how happy they were, and I started to wonder if I should become a transsexual, too.

And then we have a discussion on wanting to detransition:

Samantha became more depressed, but the main catalyst for her decision to live as a man again was ostensibly the collapse of her engagement to a wealthy British landowner, who was aware of her sex-change operation.

"Initially, he wasn't bothered that I'd once been a man, but the longer we were together, the more he mentioned it," says Charles. "He'd say things like 'so and so doesn't think like that because she's a real woman'. I realised I'd never be fully accepted as a woman."

And wanting to be connected with his children again:

"After the operation, I put out feelers through extended family to see if they'd meet me, but I received a message back saying they'd rather leave things as they were. That was a terrible blow.

"So nothing has really turned out the way I hoped. Sometimes, it can be a very lonely existence. I thought going back to being a man would be the end of the story, but it's not. Becoming a man again has been much harder than I ever imagined.

This story alone makes me think we need to have very careful, emotionally supportive, and mature psychological approaches to anyone wishing to physically transition.

I don't think there would have been many sex changes happening in the UK back then either.

It does make one wonder why he didn't have access to his kids, though obviously reading the transwidows threads on here give some insight into what it must be like to be married to a man who wants to be a woman and to why some men in this situation might lose contact with their children.

He does sound confused though. And multiple surgeries must be harmful, whether they are sex reassignment surgeries or just plain old cosmetic-to-fit-a-view-of-self surgeries (such as for some women who get bigger and bigger breasts, for example, or people who try to look like cats/aliens/another race etc etc).

To me it's a simple case of showing that surgery doesn't appear to be the best way to fix mental health issues. Which seems obvious, but isn't to so many people it seems.

I was going to link to that previous piece, but Datun beat me to it I see. I find it difficult to have much sympathy with this individual after seeing their claim that ^'Not only am I a real woman; I would go even further to say that a transgender woman has more claim to womanhood that a “biological” woman.

‘A transgender woman has reached womanhood by the arduous path of achievement rather than by accident of nature. Those who climb Mount Everest have a greater claim to winning that peak than someone accidentally dropped there by helicopter.’^

However only a few years ago they were telling the Mail that "I am a real man. I feel 100 per cent a man and the first sex change was a terrible mistake.

here

Interesting to see the link to Russell Reid who was investigated by the GMC for rushing treatment (I wonder if Dr Reid would even be investigated now, although he was ridiculously quick with the hormones).

Oh and the doctor who did the detransition surgery in 2004 has www.newsweek.com/transgender-women-transgender-men-sex-change-sex-reassignment-surgery-676777 spoken]] about the extensive counseling he required for all of his patients, so I wonder what Mx Kane was saying then as they appear to regularly reappraise their personal history.

One thing is for sure is that they have very stereotyped views about how men and women behave.

I feel really sorry for the former wife, whom they apparently married in a bid "to conform."

Talk about being used.

I see a hopelessly sexiest man with a transvestite kink.

He thinks that women are the guardians of sex and that if he becomes one, he will have all the sex he wants and can become a guardian who opens all the doors.

I have absolutely zero idea how this man ever became successful. He is a fool.

But he is pathetic, and I mean that in the way where I have pathos for him.

He is a victim of society and the relentless gender stereotyping that he has bought into.

A man who transitions into a woman has always been a woman and that should be acknowledged by altering their birth certificate.

A transwoman who transitions back to being a man was always a man, even when they were always a woman, and this too should be reflected on their birth certificate.

A trans-transman who transitions back into a woman again has always been a woman, even when she was always a man, even when she was always a woman.

Why do people have difficulty understanding this?

Was anyone else very bothered by the fact that pictures of Kane's ex-wife have been included in every DM article?
Can we leave the poor woman out of this?

AspieAndProud

I'm not sure I'd be jumping to assume that's the truth and not a rewrite. In some of the articles (and apparently there was a documentary too) Kane has said that the first transition was the result of a mental breakdown and a mistake brought about by the stress of his marriage breakdown and subsequent estrangement from his children. It's perfectly possible that Kane was unremarkable when it comes to gender presentation throughout his marriage and that not seeing their children had nothing to do with his subsequent sex change. Also possible that Kane cross dressed from an early age and it was an issue in the marriage, and his ex-wife's story might well be very different, neither his wife or fiance appear to share Kane's desire to appear in the media (or his children for that matter).

Oh and Iran and Iraq are very different countries with different histories, cultures and faiths (both Muslim, but Iraq is mostly Shi'ite where Iran is Shia). In the 60s and 70s both were secular and pretty progressive (Iraq for example actively encouraged women to enter the workforce and had significant initiatives to increase women's literacy and education).

What everyone needs is feminism.
They really, really, REALLY do.

I'm delegating Shady Pines and setting up a purpose-built town based on feminism.

You can bring the illegal still. And we will continue to hold bridge, scrabble, and poker nights.

Agree Datun

Also, I see shame, lack of empathy, denial, projection, transference, failure to recognise cause and effect and consequences (his adultery), probable blunted emotions, deep lack of self knowledge and belief, impulsiveness, risk taking, lack of empathy but likely high ish IQ = power games and manipulation, everything is a game, narc.

As an emotion-based human being; flawed, confused and unhappy, but as a capitalist I think he has what it takes.

"I thought that if I gave her a nice house and she had plenty of money to spend at Harrods, she'd be happy, but she wasn't," says Charles who also admits he had a couple of affairs during his marriage.

"In fact, I found being a woman rather shallow and limiting. So much depends on your appearance, at the expense of everything else. I wasn't interested in shopping"

I think I've spotted one of his issues here...

"the first transition was the result of a mental breakdown and a mistake brought about by the stress of his marriage breakdown and subsequent estrangement from his children"

Read the transwidows thread.

Lots of men think that being "trans" excuses the most appalling treatment of their wives and children.

Could it possibly be that his wish to become a woman (demonstrated by many men by forcing their wives to be complicit in their dressing up, makeup, feminisation etc) might have contributed to the breakdown of his marriage? But of course, by claiming to be a woman inside he can demand sympathy and be the oppressed one.

It's all so fucking predictable.

FanWithoutAGuard

It's so obvious, isn't it? They see the stereotypes, they want the stereotypes, the reality is different, they reject it.

I have absolutely zero idea how this man ever became successful. He is a fool.

A fool in a man's world though.

AspieAndProud

This person isn't trapped in the wrong body, they are trapped with a dysfunctioning brain. Hellish.

And by their love of regressive stereotypes. I find it difficult to muster much sympathy for a person who believes that women have no interest in the world or in politics and do nothing but shop, and that their spouse should therefore be perfectly happy as long as she's able to take regular trips to Harrods.

Shallow as a paddling pool, basically.

Even though I was a woman physically, in many ways I felt I still had a male brain. I was still interested in the world, what was happening, current affairs, business and sport, but the women I mixed with didn't share that interest to the same degree.

"In fact, I found being a woman rather shallow and limiting. So much depends on your appearance, at the expense of everything else. I wasn't interested in shopping

This is absolutely appalling. How can someone with such an incredibly low opinion of women possibly claim to be one? I want to say AGP misogynist. They're usually the type to say 'teehee, my ladybrain made me a terrible driver since I started taking hormones' and such. This is even worse.

Going shopping was boring, female conversation dull,

All the conversation? All of it? I don't think even the average DM-reading sexist man would say that sort of thing.

Perhaps women simply didn't want to talk to this person, or feel comfortable enough with them to engage on a deeper level. Superficial conversation is what people tend to have with those who they don't feel comfortable with and would rather not be engaging with at all.