Fetishism vs. pushing of boundaries Vs safety

[Bineverywhere]

My personal feeling is that a large proportion of this is driven by sexual fetish and entitlement. C.f., widows/cotton ceiling etc. Being the very obvious - and highly repugnant ones.

What might've been called transvestism 20 years ago has gone mainstream and by being "nice" we're not screaming "save it for Saturday night clubbing! ". Boundaries of what we should accept sexually have been stomped on - I'm also wholly against the entire pornification movement and modern sexual expectations. Each to their own and all - but.. I think it used to be quite niche to find a soulmate equally into "advanced play".

I find it utterly terrifying that a sexual fetish is out there and we're being coerced into participating by way of threats.

I have gay friends who embrace drag - but don't claim to be women and certainly don't want to have sex with women.

I've tried myself in knots writing this... You know, in case it's "mean" to suggest a significant percentage of a subset are driven by sexual motive. Pretty sure that's a good definition of what it means to be a woman.

Have I completely got the wrong end of the stick or is there a highly sexualised element to all of this? And... Because it is sexually driven - I believe these people ARE a greater sexual risk to women than others. I don't think transmen are a physical or sexual risk to biological males.

I've known a couple of transexuals over the years - all living as "Maureen the librarian" and not "Tallulah the 18 year old pole dancer".

Ugh. Paragraphs came out in the wrong order!

completely agree. I also feel the main drive for self id, is so that experts in the field cant call out that it is a sexual fetish and not gender dysphoria. thinking of the recent aimee challenor case, does this person really have gender dysphoria, or are they merely expressing what their father has been doing in private for some time ie dressing up as a girl in nappies. I mean surely any psychiatrist or gender expert, would think this is worth exploring before any 'gender dysphoria' diagnosis is made. From what i have read of the family law reports. How many more of these young males dressing as women in public have backgrounds which might explain why they want to perform woman and would benefit from therapy that addresses the isues rather than panders to gender identity politics / promoting its ok to parade a sexual fetish in public at the expense of actual girls and women.

Clearly the massive anger and demands of “No debate!” are because by challenging this behaviour and wanting to talk about it honestly, (particularly how certain men who embrace “identifying” as women are a danger to women and girls) the darker more anti-social aspects of some transwomen’s identities, which are wrapped up in pornography and an emphasis on sexual expression above all other aspects of women’s lives, are in danger of being exposed.

It is just the arrogance of constantly telling women what we must accept (domination) and it is behaviour that a substantial majority of women find uncomfortable to be around. We don’t want men who are acting out their version of womanhood (which mostly is centered on stereotypes) in women-only spaces. I just find the bullying and verbal bullying so outrageous. When do men get treated like this politically when trying to have a debate and to have their voice heard? Rushing to push through new law that directly affect women without our input is a massive RED FLAG.

It scares me how the very people most likely to protect women and girls, that is WOMEN are being silenced.

If everything is so ethical and wholesome why on earth can’t we have an open debate about it.

Why is a percentage of the population that is tiny (less than 1%) being given priority of a majority of the population who are women?

I think social media, especially Twitter has allowed these people to get together and attempt to normalise things that have previously been viewed as taboo, secretive and/or illegal

Sadly they've managed to gaslight an awful lot of people into going along with their agenda. Worryingly that appears to include the people we've elected to look after us.

My 'woke' young acquaintances don't seem to know about AGP. To be honest, I only know about it because I inadvertently found myself in a sexual relationship with one. A quiet, unassuming, sensitive, artistic man who, it turned out, had a porn addiction and could only have sex wearing women's skimpy underwear - several sizes too small - and wanted to be read forced feminisation stories and be called a sissy.

I only lasted a few weeks as it quickly got old for me when sex was ALL about his needs and not mine.

Most people out there haven't had experience of this so they think trans does equal Maureen the librarian.

Oh and clearly someone in need of psychological support - not because of the fetish per se but because of a deep sense of shame and also confusion around gender and sexuality and seemingly some ptsd about past experiences that the current expression seems to be an escapism from.

But that's not to generalise to all - that's just my experience.

The blinding double standards of it all piss me off and bring to mind the 80s "joke" a man would tell. "I don't care if he's gay - just don't shove it down my throat". Yet here we are 30 years progressively forward (!) And we ARE having it shoved down our metaphorical and very real throats.

There was an article in the British Medical Journal (August 2018) that was calling for better research and facts on the rise of transgender people in GP's surgeries and the link with sexual fetishes.

Until there is a way of distinguishing between those who are undergoing 'gender reassignment' as a part of their fetish and those with dysphoria, then the Equality Act protections for 'gender reassignment' are a safety risk. (As well as an abuse of the healthcare system)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3339177-Excellent-BMJ-Article-Responding-to-Previous-One-Featuring-ATH

Totally agree OP. I don't consent to enforced participation in strangers' fetishes. Which is what compulsory affirmation and validation of AGP individuals means.

I 1000 percent resist children being forced to validate adults' wants in this way. Girls being told that males in their toilets and changing rooms always have a right to be there? No.

Boundary-crushing red flags everywhere we look.

Renaming both transsexuals and transvestites as ‘transwomen’ is deeply offensive and damaging to transsexuals.

to everyone lurking here this is always my third point on my arsey letters to officials.

1. safeguarding is being trampled on - Savile/Rotherham style scandal waiting to happen.

2. This is trampling all over women’s rights.

3. this is trampling all over the social acceptance of transsexuals - the people you claim to be trying to help WTAF is going on here???

Absolutely, Lurkacus.

People living with the legitimate, medically diagnosable conditions of dysphoria and dysmorphia are seen as collateral damage by transgenderists. If they even think about them at all.

Its not just AGP and dysmorphia. My DCs are more sceptical than most of their peers, probably because they know a troubled teen who has now come out as trans. Thay have no issue with trans per se, but are not convinced that living as the opposite sex will solve this individual's problems.

Its worthwhile being aware of the BACP Best Practice guide on Gender Sexual and Relationship Diversity written by Dr Meg-John Barker. BACP is the accrediting organisation for counsellors etc.

www.bacp.co.uk/media/2334/bacp-gender-sexual-relationship-diversity-gpacp001.pdf

The guide includes discussion of BDSM, kink etc at 3.7.

Seems heavily influenced by Queer Theory.

The author is partner of Edward Lords, both identify as non-binary.

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3339137-BACP-Gender-Sexual-and-Relationship-Diversity-by-Dr-Meg-John-Barker

1) safeguarding is being trampled on - Savile/Rotherham style scandal waiting to happen.

Important threads discussing the wide-ranging failings / failures of Safeguarding frameworks:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3344556-Let-s-talk-about-how-safeguarding-is-being-disregarded

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3301266-Safeguarding-girls-and-protecting-women-post-Jimmy-Saville-metoo

I first realised this when I read about TopShop Travis.

He didn't want to be a woman. He wanted to assert his right to involve other people in his fetish of dressing up and pretending to be a teenage girl. By trying on teenage girl clothes, in a dressing room where he was surrounded by teenage girls, he could do that.

By pretending to be a victim, he managed to get a nationwide chain of shops and their entire clientele involved in his fetish.

And I don't care if I'm deleted/banned - there is no other possible logical explanation for his behaviour.

And in the same week there was a Guardian article by a man who had started to buy his own (female) underwear, and all about how he looked the sales girl in the eye and bravely told her that he was buying it for himself.

The whole tone was how wonderful and honest he was to be out in the open about his fetish

extract from the BACP Best practice guide linked above:

"3.7 Sexual practice: BDSM, kink, and beyond
Definitions
BDSM stands for Bondage and Discipline, Dominance and Submission, Sadism and Masochism. The umbrella terms ‘BDSM’, ‘kink’, and sometimes ‘fetish’ or ‘leather’, encompass a range of consensual erotic, sexual, or sensual practices which may involve heightened sensations or pain, and/or the exchange of power, and/or some form of restraint or role-play, and/ or watching other people (exhibitionism) or being watched (voyeurism).
Role-playing such as being an animal (furry) or being older or younger (age-play) are also common, although not always considered part of kink/ BDSM. Some people regard their BDSM status or kink to be an identity, e.g. being a top or dom/me (dominant), a bottom or sub (submissive), a switch (who tops and bottoms), or a kinkster or sadomasochist. Others regard it as a practice they engage in which is not an identity. Some may keep their kink in the realm of fantasy and/or erotic reading/writing/viewing, while some engage in kink practices in solo sex and/or with others.
The extent of BDSM is hard to estimate, but the massive popularity of the Fifty Shades books and films suggest that some interest in kink is incredibly common. Around two thirds of people have fantasies about bondage, and other common interests like spanking and roleplay are not far behind (Renaud and Byers, 1999). Over a third of people sometimes use masks, blindfolds and bondage equipment during sex (Durex, 2005).
Common concerns
While a person’s kink identities or practices will often be irrelevant
to their presenting issues, they may well be nervous about working
with a therapist – or revealing these interests – due to the continued
pathologisation of BDSM (1.6), and the likelihood of having bad prior
experiences with therapists (Kolmes, Stock and Moser, 2006; Kelsey et al., 2013). Kinky people are no more psychologically unhealthy than anyone else. Indeed the most recent research suggests that they may even be more healthy (Wismeijer and Assen, 2013)" (continues)

’leather’, encompass a range of consensual erotic, sexual, or sensual practices which may involve heightened sensations or pain, and/or the exchange of power, and/or some form of restraint or role-play, and/ or watching other people (exhibitionism) or being watched (voyeurism).

eyes shoes suspiciously

I think they have their watchers and their watched confused.

Sorry, I know that was flippant and this is not an amusing subject. It’s just that I’ve read so much self important, “we’re so much more special and we need all the attention and care” bullshit recently that I’m starting to come a bit undone.

"I don't consent to enforced participation in strangers' fetishes. Which is what compulsory affirmation and validation of AGP individuals means. "

Yes! That's exactly how I feel!

They seem to have missed out suggestion of a link between bdsm and borderline personality disorder https://www.researchgate.net/publication/284732702IssThereaaRelationshipBetweennBorderlinePersonalityyDisorderanddSexualMasochismmin_Women

Are you for real? Are you actually having a dig at my mental health?

As somewhat of an expert in BPD I'd suggest the link reveals not a fetish FOR BDSM - but rather our ability to be coerced into unfavorable sexual relationships (aka abuse) due to triggering abandonment issues.

But presumably because you've googled a paper to take a pop at my mental health you're now an expert on the condition and its socio-complications.

See ThatDrEm's comments on the thread discussing the BACP guide:
extract
"I have posted this on twitter but it really stood out to me that on p.39 Dr. Barker quoted Gayle Rubin. Rubin is a giant of Queer Theory but is also an advocate for paedophilia as a legitimate sexual orientation. She supports the idea of queering generational boundaries. I have copied a mini-thread in which I did ages ago in case it is of interest." (continues)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3339137-BACP-Gender-Sexual-and-Relationship-Diversity-by-Dr-Meg-John-Barker

It is very concerning that this sexual behaviour can include exhibitionism. How on earth are people supposed to know the difference between a man who likes to exhibit himself in public for sexual pleasure, a transsexual and then others who now are under the “umbrella of trans”.

The main outcome seems to be is that every dodgy man can be quickly ushered under the “umbrella” and be blessed with the sanctity of Holy Wokedom.

Women are outside the umbrella in the pouring rain getting dumped on as per usual.

I hate how we are aggressively silenced and yet they crave our approval and recognition of how successfully they are impersonating us.

It is very concerning that this sexual behaviour can include exhibitionism. How on earth are people supposed to know the difference between a man who likes to exhibit himself in public for sexual pleasure, a transsexual and then others who now are under the “umbrella of trans”.

cf recent allegations regarding Jess Bradley (NUS Trans officer, co-founder of TELI & Action for Trans Health). Jess Bradley is currently suspended from their position whilst NUS investigate.
threads:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3320513-Jess-Bradley-first-transgender-student-officer-suspended-after-flashing-photos

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3321764-Jess-Bradley-suspended-Part-II

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3325623-Jess-Bradley-a-government-advisor-on-womens-rights-suspended-by-NUS-over-indecent-blog-Part-iii