Have we petitioned Stonewall directly?

[heresyandwitchcraft]

Stupid question. I was thinking with the momentum of Stickerwoman that perhaps we could start a direct petition to Stonewall UK just to engage in dialogue with women's groups/set up a public neutrally structured debate?
Does anyone know if we have recently tried directly petitioning the LGBT groups to even just TALK to us? I know there have been ones to the government, but I really think it's more than a little crazy that we can't even speak with the so-called "other side."
Maybe if we get enough signatures to them they can stop pretending this is just a minority concern?
What do you think?

Threats And Violence Are Bad, and that you think it's a one-sided thing; it’s not

Huh? Feminists are not being threatening and violent.

Women in 2018 cannot even meet up in a room peacefully without threats, violence and vandalism.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3346945-Trans-vandals-attack-listed-building-with-obscene-graffiti

I'll sign!

You know exactly what you did. You jumped on this thread and made this all about how evil the gender-critical side is.

This is one of the few places we can talk online.
There are countless threads debating nuances of positions.
This thread itself has mixed reactions to my OP.

If you'd started a new thread posing your question as to whether we are a "monolith" - then everyone could benefit from more easily being able to find it.
The ones being dehumanized are the feminists- replace TERF with anything else, like "trans" or "woman" or "lesbian."
I write grandmother, because it highlights Maria's humanity. It reminds you that she is a person. She may disagree with you politically. But she is somebody's grandmother, who was assaulted by three young people claiming to be human rights activists for trying to film masked protestors intimidating her and blocking her from attending a meeting.

Users of this very website - an anonymous parenting forum - were doxxed by someone claiming to do so for trans activism:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3225517-The-MNHQ-Moderation-team

Feminists are just not doing this.
Nobody here wants to "F*ck up a , they're no better than fash."
The people assaulting trans people are violent men, many of them paying for sex, who have never even heard of Germaine Greer. These are dangerous individuals we should all be finding ways to stop together.

But thank you at least for acknowledging that it is wrong to call for violence. Because many people on the trans activist side do not agree. As you can tell from the Twitter link I posted upthread detailing the reactions to Stonewall condemning violence.

It's a pity that this thread about Stonewall has disappeared under a lot of posts about other things.

They are important things, but they belong elsewhere. In fact, these important things have been discussed elsewhere. Over and over again.

A plea to keep on topic. please.

A plea to keep on topic. please.

Until Stonewall admit that they are on the wrong side of history, the only thing that anyone will get out of trying to engage them is misery and potentially some outing of people's personal details.

Stonewall literally stonewall anyone who doesn't chant the mantra. And their activists WILL seek vengeance on those that don't. So approaching them - and trying to talk to them, means someone has to be the fall 'guy'.

I personally don't think anyone deserves to be outed and put at risk in that way.

Stonewall literally stonewall anyone who doesn't chant the mantra. And their activists WILL seek vengeance on those that don't. So approaching them - and trying to talk to them, means someone has to be the fall 'guy'.

Well, exactly. This whole thing makes me sick to my stomach. But in my ideal world I would like to have something like a petition or letter-writing campaign where it would be easy to do, there is safety in anonymity, and if enough people were able to join in then they cannot keep saying it's a "fringe concern" of some devil-worshipping witches.

Huh? Feminists are not being threatening and violent.

Feminists are just not doing this. Nobody here wants to "Fck up a , they're no better than fash."*

I wouldn't call them feminists, but there's plenty of threats.
threadreaderapp.com/thread/1007546138361303040.html

If you'd started a new thread posing your question as to whether we are a "monolith" - then everyone could benefit from more easily being able to find it.

I've done that before. I got plenty of support, plenty of "disingenuous, goady, misogynist", one "Fuck off you (something something) misogynist wanker", and lost a friend.

I write grandmother, because it highlights Maria's humanity. It reminds you that she is a person.

Oh dear.

I was thinking with the momentum of Stickerwoman that perhaps we could start a direct petition to Stonewall UK just to engage in dialogue with women's groups/set up a public neutrally structured debate?
Does anyone know if we have recently tried directly petitioning the LGBT groups to even just TALK to us?

The effort has been made repeatedly over the years, to no avail.
Like so many other LGBT groups, when same sex marriage was legalized, Stonewall was taken over by MRAs and their focus is now on stripping women of their rights and doing away with safeguarding of children in the schools. All this in the name of equal rights for transgenders.

I've repeatedly asked for this thread to stop being derailed - so I will be reporting further off-topic posts.
We've just got back on track.
I'm well aware of the circles Hetty Spoon runs in, thank you. I disavow each and every single one of the actual violent threats on that Twitter thread (of which I count such violent language coming from 6 accounts - and I do not recognize their screen names). Nor do I condone some of the other rhethoric on there. I ain't seen threats of violence from regular MN posters either.
However, your counter of one tweet thread, is absolutely nothing compared with the deluge of evidence we have of TERF being used in association with violent threats and imagery.
FFS

Anyways, thebewilderness, I agree that it seems this is all going to be hopeless. It's just sad to feel like we can't just talk about the difficult stuff and reconcile our differences like grown-ups. And I am sure the public would be interested in an open debate, because there is so much misinformation and bad blood right now. It's all so toxic.

You can't operate a default opt-out policy to crap from your side and a default opt-in policy to crap from mine. Check your asymmetry.

So stop putting stuff to me and have at it.

Transgender advocates raised the umbrella in 2005 and tried to force Lesbians and Gays and as many others as they could under it. They were told no but once same sex marriage was legal the heterosexual cross dressers rushed in to take over most LGBT organizations.
This is from Stonewall UK Glossary of Terms.
"Trans
An umbrella term to describe people whose gender is not the same as, or does not sit comfortably with, the sex they were assigned at birth.
Trans people may describe themselves using one or more of a wide variety of terms, including (but not limited to) transgender, transsexual, gender-queer (GQ), gender-fluid, non-binary, gender-variant, crossdresser, genderless, agender, nongender, third gender, two-spirit, bi-gender, trans man, trans woman,trans masculine, trans feminine and neutrois."

Check your asymmetry.
Violence is asymmetrical. You know that and so do we all.

Yup so's hypocrisy.

bewilderness
Could you point me in the direction of any history on the very early stages of this "debate," especially with Stonewall? That would be fascinating.
I wonder whether we could pull up some of those old quotes, if only to prove that this has not always been the consensus view. Maybe it would remind people that these are new ideas. Even looking at some earlier articles about self-ID, the "opposing viewpoint" could actually be a quote from a transsexual person themselves. Nikki Sinclaire comes to mind.
I will probably just drop it, re:Stonewall.
But it feels a shame we are at this point.

To be honest, perhaps one thing we could ask Stonewall is about their trans advisory group member Aimee Challenor and they have an opinion on recent events...

This is a link to the archives of the web site where I first read transgenders raise the idea with Gay's and Lesbians in 2005.
shadowproof.com/category/pams-house-blend/

Too may great blogs have disappeared due to link rot and being thrust down the 'memory hole'.