Legal take down of proposed changes to the GRA by barrister Julian Norman

[OrchidInTheSun]

docs.google.com/document/d/1b7viOWsx-Wgw344fujX3QddaJN8d4JKJoaVhyzMz1so/mobilebasic

This is a really excellent and clear article which explains the legal impact on the EA of proposed changes to the GRA.

Well worth a read

Stephanie Hayden is no fan of Mumsnet:

Stephanie Hayden
@flyinglawyer73
Aug 10

For all those making a song and dance about #BorisJohnson and the #burka take a look at the feminism board on @MumsnetTowers and read true hate and bigotry being published by the minute! That is what you call a hate crime! Not jokes about a letterbox! #MumsNet #Bigots

Well Stephanie currently seems to be sucking up to Julian on twitter, probably because she thinks Julian is a bloke.

She also made this extraordinary statement: (my underscoring)

Stephanie Hayden

@flyinglawyer73

Replying to @DemocracyMs, @Gerontia, and @PrideInLondon
A piece of paper cannot change a biological sex; however, where someone has been subject to prolonged hormonal treatment it is a matter of academic debate as to whether one still retains original biological sex. Then there are brain studies. All different arguments of course!
11:50 am · 10 Jul 2018

Maybe Stephanie should call the police if they thinks there’s evidence of a hate crime here? And if they is not prepared to do that, then maybe they should stop with the defamatory commentary?

Hooray, a lawyer clearly explaining the law and giving a very convincing GC legal analysis.

And just confirm, she said this herself on Twitter:

Stephanie Hayden

@flyinglawyer73
·
10 Jul

I hold a GRC.I will use any space designated as female, or any space designated as unisex. Female bathrooms are single space by definition. I won't be told to use something 'special'. I get the self id objections (I share them) but no one holding a GRC will be discriminated against

Well of course Stephanie will use whatever facilities they wants, because they is obviously incapable of identifying with women, only as one, and so has no ability to understand how women feel.

To be fair to Stephanie, she says that she has a GRC. Presumably that means that shes passed various assessments etc and, in my mind, that means the medical and psychological practitioners who passed her believe that she doesnt present a threat to the general female population whilst going about daily life. It's self ID that gives me the Heebie jeebies. Its those who will, inevitably, abuse self ID who haunt me.

in my mind, that means the medical and psychological practitioners who passed her believe that she doesnt present a threat to the general female population whilst going about daily life.

Which set of test can prove a male person doesn't present a threat to the general population?

Yes, it’s very true that a diagnosis of gender dysphoria in no way is any form of guarantee or even belief that a person is not a risk. It does however weed out genuine cases from opportunistic or AGP ones.

No idea I'm afraid. I'm not one of the doctors who give people GRCs so I don't even know what they test for. To be honest, I think every man has the capacity to be a danger to females, even the "nice guys". But if the medical profession is prepared to tell the DVLA to allow me, an epileptic, a driving licence on the basis that they believe I'm not a danger to the public, then I have to trust that the same medical profession knows what they're doing here, too.

Do the people who issue GRC actually claim that their patients (? I don't know if that's the correct word) present no risk? I thought they just diagnosed gender dysphoria.

No idea again. If you find out, it would be good to know. Thinking about it, which Dr would put their reputation on the line like that? But then, prisons release people, saying they're no longer a danger to the public. People get bail whilst awaiting trial because they're not considered a danger, despite fairly nasty allegations. I'm trying to get my head around it all still. Maybe I'm getting it wrong. Isn't a GRC issued after surgery?

But anyone can say anything online can't they?

Stephanie claims to be a lawyer (but there is no record of them as a solicitor or barrister). Seemed to get the legal analysis of the GRC and the EA badly wrong. Spends their time on Twitter slagging off Mumsnet, with no regard for libel laws.

In contrast, anyone can easily google Julian Norman and find thousands of references to her work and qualifications.

And anyone can say that they have a GRC and there is no way for Joe or Josephine Public to verify that.

That is the situation that we are in.

Do the people who issue GRC actually claim that their patients (? I don't know if that's the correct word) present no risk? I thought they just diagnosed gender dysphoria.

No, they just certify that they have GD. A serial killer could have GD. The TRAs accuse us of relying on false stereotypes in our arguments. However, they do the same. Trans women are presented as harmless but tortured souls, meaning that if someone has GD, people almost immediately stop questioning whether they could pose a risk. The reality is that TW, like all other male people, are not a homogenous group. Some will be no risk but some will be a risk. You really cannot tell just through a GD diagnosis.

One advantage is that individuals with GD are much more likely to be on hormones and to have had surgery.

Hmm I stand corrected. I've clearly fallen back into the trap of believing in people (men). Thank you both!

So...to clarify . no surgery required?

Isn't a GRC issued after surgery?

Nope

There are many transmen and transwomen who have had surgery of some sort who do not have a GRC, and many transmen and tranwomen who have a GRC but have not had surgery (for some people there are various factors which mean that they are unable to have surgery, either in the short or longer term)

socio, I think all sorts of doctors would put their reputations on the line. There is a lot of money in it.

Dr. Adrian Harrop is blatantly drumming up business on Twitter.

Helen Webberley, a self-defined private gender GP, states on their website: "As there are a large number of patients relying on my care who can’t get the help they need from anywhere else, and because there is a high incidence of self harm and suicide in this patient group, I am going to transfer the hub of my service to my other residence in Malaga, Spain so that I can continue providing care while the regulatory processes are being sorted out."

gendergp.co.uk/queries/

And no, you don't need surgery to get a GRC.

Nope, no surgery or indeed hormones required. However, probably difficult to convince a doctor you have GD if you have no desire to alter your body. I doubt eg Jess Bradley or Alex Drummond would pass the test.

So its weeding out the obvious em...what can I say? Obvious discordant notes. It weeds out the obvious discordant notes, but leaves in some that may still, potentially, be a bit flat or sharp?

We need third spaces, don't we? Let the flats, the sharps and the discordant and bum notes fight it out amongst themselves.

Yeah I've never met Stephanie Hayton but she is on my twitter and that's how I know she has a GRC, cos she has said so herself on twitter, publicly to the world

Oh, I don't know.

A quick session with Adrian Harrop and Bob's your uncle, I'd say. Or Roberta is your aunt maybe.

That's exactly who will be doing these gender dysphoria diagnoses. We know that right? Maybe via Skype from Thailand because the "regulatory processes" get in the way in the UK.

There will be doctors who specialise in GD diagnosis, yes. I am sure Dr Misogyny will set up his own clinic in due course where he will rubber-stamp every application.

So it's all absolutely meaningless.