Sarah Vine in the DM nailing it for the second week running

[tiredandweary]

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-6084937/SARAH-VINE-rights-one-transgender-pupil-trump-rest-schools-students.html

Another very good thoughtful article from her.

As schools must have sex segregated toilets then this school is evidently prioritising one protected characteristic, gender reassignment, over two others, sex and religious belief. How can they get away with that? Wonder what equality impact assessments they conducted (the answer will be none).

Not sure how to broach it in all honesty.

Invoke the law that says single-sex toilets must be provided. Put it in writing to the chair of governors, copy to the head, copy to local authority or academy trust if applicable.

JellySlice

So are Mermaids etc right in this case?

Keep going - are they right about what?

Call me cynical but I reckon that the Goves have sussed that the tide may be turning on this issue. It would aid her husband’s career ambitions greatly if he were to time it right and jump aboard the bandwagon opposing self ID, therefore coming across as the voice of reason and putting clear water between himself and May.
I think that she is feeling out and preparing the ground.

No, no, VickyEadie, after you. You go on, please do.

I'm sure OldCrone understands what I am responding to.

I'd be amazed if Michael Gove ever thought self ID was a good idea, tbh.

Angels, my dc's primary schools had similar in the lower years. It did not seem to be a problem in general. In KS2 they had entirely separate toilets - which didn't stop a boy from following dd in. But that was a straightforward bullying issue, which the school stamped upon hard.

Definitely periods need to be taken into account in KS2. That, I think might be the way to raise the issue with the school.

No, no, VickyEadie, after you. You go on, please do.

Unless you reference the issue, the rest of us do not know what you're talking about. I asked for clarification. Just like you said Sarah Vine should do.

So - on a public forum, if you ask a question, it's courtesy to let the rest of us know what you're referring to - isn't it?

Again - are Mermaids right about what?

Agreed Timelady, but like most politicians I don’t expect that he will risk speaking out until he sees some clear political benefit for him.

The comments under his wife's article should make the majority view clear enough. I cannot envisage a Conservative government passing this legislation; I think they're just going through the motions with the consultation.

Well, we do know that at least one school pupil was able to take legal action to force their school to allow them into the opposite sex (girls') loos and changing areas. A certain Labour Women's Officer seems quite proud of that fact.

We also know that at least one other school has been 'reeducated' by transgender police officers to make it do just this. Again, it's something the police officer concerned was proud to bring about.

So are Mermaids etc right in this case?

No. This is what the Equality and Human Rights Commission says in their Technical Guidance for Schools

A school fails to provide appropriate changing facilities for a transsexual pupil and insists that the pupil uses the boys’ changing room even though she is now living as a girl. This could be indirect gender reassignment discrimination unless it can be objectively justified. A suitable alternative might be to allow the pupil to use private changing facilities, such as the staff changing room or another suitable space.

The schools are not obliged to let a boy use the girls' changing rooms just because he thinks he is a girl.

The EHRC is supposed to be issuing new guidance for schools in September (postponed from May). Will be interesting to see what it contains.

AngelsAckiz

This is the guidance that tells school that they must have sex segregated toilets and washing facilities for pupils from the age of 8.
It's the law! Remember our favourite little hashtag - #nodebate ?

Give the school a copy of this and ask for the date that they will rectify their error (and share it with all and any teachers that you know).

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/719398/Gender-separation-guidance.pdf

point 13.

I'm just so pleased to see a decent article that covers the issues clearly on a site with such a huge number of users and so much influence. Good news for the gender critical perspective.

oh wow... if you go to the DM comments are sort by 'best', the highest rated ones are quite shocking. It really does show you how little we get away with here. Anyway, the DM's readers are having none of it. Any TRA-type comments are voted down into oblivion.

oh wow... if you go to the DM comments are sort by 'best', the highest rated ones are quite shocking. It really does show you how little we get away with here. Anyway, the DM's readers are having none of it. Any TRA-type comments are voted down into oblivion.

Those people scare me, though - their views on some things that would be uncontroversial to both GC feminists and TRAs alike can be quite shocking.

Those people scare me, though - their views on some things that would be uncontroversial to both GC feminists and TRAs alike can be quite shocking.

On any subject!!

I was reading an article about the gcse results and the comments from some of the people who obviously had comprehension issues themselves were disgusting...having said that i only read 3/4 before I completely lost my shit

Most comments on articles on this issue show that the vast majority do not support self ID. I suspect that is why the Guardian usually close the commenrs section. I would guess that recent survey showing that only 18% support self ID is accurate, though even that small number could well be falling now with increased publicity.

I think we will see the death of Self-Id now. I am really hopeful. But where will the MRAs turn their attention to then?

I think we will see the death of Self-Id now

Maybe.

I think the infiltration of women's spaces will continue apace as long as there is a very loose definition of 'gender reassignment' in the Equality Act. There is nothing in the definition to say that gender reassignment involves intervention from healthcare professionals, as far as I can see. (I need to read the legal opinion posted elsewhere today, 22nd August).

If anyone can self-medicate and get a boob job or other feminisation surgery, then I can't see how that differs from self-identification.

Am I mistaken?

if you go to the DM comments are sort by 'best', the highest rated ones are quite shocking. It really does show you how little we get away with here.

I think the irony is that those of us who are feminists are probably vastly more sympathetic to trans people than the average person in the street, let alone the average DM reader. We're the ones who get all the hate, though.

Christ 'Stop Funding Hate' just got wind of this and there's a pile-on of people on FB claiming that GC voices are 'denying my right to exist'.

And 2 seconds later, 3 people calling me a 'TERF'. It's genuinely frightening.

I've had to remove my comment due to the abuse I was getting

Stop funding hate are being funded to hate anyone questioning the removal of female safeguarding?