Sarah Vine in the DM nailing it for the second week running

[tiredandweary]

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-6084937/SARAH-VINE-rights-one-transgender-pupil-trump-rest-schools-students.html

Another very good thoughtful article from her.

As schools must have sex segregated toilets then this school is evidently prioritising one protected characteristic, gender reassignment, over two others, sex and religious belief. How can they get away with that? Wonder what equality impact assessments they conducted (the answer will be none).

Not a Vine or DM fan by any means, but can I piggy back on this to make a plea to recognise schools and individual teachers are terrified of getting it wrong in sensitive areas like this and clutch at any guidance they are given, almost all of which has come from trans groups.

I have posted elsewhere about the Chartered College for teachers tweeting support for a petition to ban 'anti-LGBTQ' publications in schools. The petition is targeting the TransgenderTrend resource which was produced to counter all the materials from Mermaids and the like which ignored sex-based protections. I can't stress enough how serious this is. The College is one of the government's main engines for CPD for teachers, is involved with new teachers, trainees and very influential with the DFE. The establishment is (possibly unwittingly) promoting this abandonment of women's and girl's rights.

I entirely agree with what SV is saying.

But she is implying that a dreadful situation exists without providing any evidence, basing it upon hearsay. That is exactly the sort of lazy, rabble-rousing, Daily Fail journalism that MNers generally condemn.

Even though 'even a stopped clock is right twice a day'.

jellyslice

You've no idea if SV checked out the e-mail story or not. It may be that she established that it is true and decided to speak about it on more general terms.

The situation described in the article is exactly the advice given to schools by Mermaids, which many have adopted as their trans gender policy. Why is that "lazy, rabble-rousing, Daily Fail journalism"? Schools are adopting these policies. I'm glad that more people realise what the implications of it would be. If Sarah Vine is fabricating the story, then a complaint should be made.

Once again it's that niggle isn't it - someone with SV who's been no friend to women in the past, and who's married to that toad is someone who can get a message out in ways that others cannot.

sorry, someone like SV

Because of the trans ideology rhetoric, all their unfounded claims and dodgy statistics, I feel that the counter-view needs to be presented in a much more accurate and honest manner.

I'm not saying that she is fabricating a story.

Jelly

So do I. I think you've pinpointed my anxiety about it.

Gove has a daughter. If May goes, Vine and Gove will try to take over again. I don't like them, this one view is their saving grace.

Right-wing men believe they own their females, left-wing men believe society owns their females. Right-wing men will not want any of this, lefty dude bros chant TWAW in the streets, except between the sheets

But she is implying that a dreadful situation exists without providing any evidence, basing it upon hearsay. That is exactly the sort of lazy, rabble-rousing, Daily Fail journalism that MNers generally condemn.

What evidence could she provide other than "Jodie Smith (who was christened Joseph) is a boy who now identifies as a girl, was permanently excluded from Bash St School and has now been enrolled at St Posh's academy for nice girls..."

Is that what you have in mind, jellyslice ?

Sarah Vine is an opinion columnist - not really a journalist. She will be subject to fact checking by her editor, but her job is not to dig into facts and give a rounded viewpoint. It is simply to give us her opinion.

Which she did.

So what evidence are you actually expecting her to provide to satisfy your misgivings? The name of the school?

Don't be daft VickyEadie. She could make it clear that she has not confirmed it, but that advice bring given to schools and other organisations traditionally understood to be single-sex, encourages precisely this.

I actually cringe each time a young person is 'named and shamed' (and any objecting girls are named and shamed). It's all so tacky and potentially damaging for them.

You're still assuming she hasn't confirmed it. Where's your evidence of that?

I'm not assuming anything. I'm responding to what she has written.

A stranger emailed me telling me that TimeLady eats babies. This is appalling. No baby deserves to be eaten by anybody.

Don't be daft VickyEadie. She could make it clear that she has not confirmed it, but that advice bring given to schools and other organisations traditionally understood to be single-sex, encourages precisely this.

"Daft"? I merely gave an example of the only type of "evidence" I could think of, but thank you for your judgment of me there. It was you who said she hadn't provided any "evidence" and now you've changed it to 'she should have said she hadn't confirmed it'.

Maybe she did confirm it, however.

I’d rather nail anything other than Michael Gove tbh.

Yes, clarify either that it is confirmed or that it is not. No need to give details.

I wholeheartedly agree with protections around biological sex.

But what this massive toxic trans rights movements have done is completely screw up the poor child involved. They, and the parents no doubt, have been completely converted to the transgender religion, so that now the only conclusion that child can draw from this, believing that "transgirls are girls", is that everyone at the school who objects is a hateful bigot. Which they are not.

And for SV to note the apparent other difficulties the child has points to what can happen when a child's emotional difficulties are not dealt with "because all their difficulties stem from not being accepted as their authentic self"

Surely you can only have the protected characteristic of gender reassignment once you have a Gender Reassignment Certificate? You have to be over 18 to get a GRC, so a school-age child cannot have that characteristic.

You don't need a GRC to have that protected characteristic. From the Equality Act 2010 :

A person has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment if the person is proposing to undergo, is undergoing or has undergone a process (or part of a process) for the purpose of reassigning the person's sex by changing physiological or other attributes of sex.

It should be easier to invoke the exceptions if someone doesn't have a GRC, but schools are being told by Mermaids, GIRES and the rest of them that this would be illegal.

My daughters primary school has unisex toilets. This has concerned me for a while. Not only are they unisex, but they are open plan as well. You can see all the stalls from the corridor.
There are cubicles labelled "boys" in blue and "girls" in red. Not sure how they handle girls who have their periods as there is literally no privacy at all.
Not sure how to broach it in all honesty.

So are Mermaids etc right in this case?

I really wish SV had linked to the GRA or mentioned what it involves. I don't think many people beyond the realms of MN really grasp what's going on here and what's at stake - she's got the platform to do it. I feel really sorry for the girls at that school.