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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Am I easily confused or is this a confusing article?

66 replies

IfIWasABirdIdFlyIn2ACeilingFan · 21/08/2018 22:46

[[www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/nonbinary-period-menstruation_us_5b75ac1fe4b0182d49b1c2ed

I am a nonbinary trans menstruator

What does this mean? My understanding of non binary means they do not subscribe to gender stereotypes associated with either males or females. Fine. But then how are they a trans person? What are they transitioning to if they don’t recognise gender?

Though I now can name these increasing anxieties as “dysphoria,” a term used to describe the common experience trans people often feel because our bodies do not match our gender,

Ok, but this person identifies as non binary- so how can their body not match their gender if they don’t have one?

On the flip side, using the men’s restroom means that I have to pray that I’m not already leaking when I walk in there and figure out the best ways to keep myself safe while discreetly tending to my period.

I would be interested in knowing why they feel the need to take extra measures to keep themselves safe in the men’s bathrooms. What is the risk they are talking about that doesn’t exist in the women’s bathrooms?

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IfIWasABirdIdFlyIn2ACeilingFan · 21/08/2018 22:47

Sorry, bad link. Try again.

www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/nonbinary-period-menstruation_us_5b75ac1fe4b0182d49b1c2ed

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AncientLights · 21/08/2018 22:49

I can't open the link, OP, but they sound like the usual deluded, narcissistic, self-obsessed twits who spout that crap. Attention seekers. Ignore.

arranfan · 21/08/2018 22:58

It's not you. So many possible solutions if this were a genuine regular difficulty for Cass rather than a talking-point for self-promotion and self-apotheosis as a leading light in pomo thinking.

Datun · 21/08/2018 23:00

I agree with AncientLights, OP.

It's inventing a problem, to which they have no solution. Exhausting.

Woman has period accident, uncomfortable dealing with in the men's room.

Shock.

LassWiADelicateAir · 21/08/2018 23:14

All that I want is to be able to walk into a store and buy tampons free of judgment

Oh what piffle. They can- we all can. Those of us living in any country where sanitary products are openly on sale can all do this.

We can fling them in the trolley with the weekly shop; we can send husbands, boyfriends, even teenage sons down to the corner shop or the all night garage shop to buy them and not one, single, solitary shop worker raises an eyebrow, bats an eyelid or cares a single, solitary fig.

IfIWasABirdIdFlyIn2ACeilingFan · 21/08/2018 23:16

Oh i wasn’t even going into the pretend problem of having a period when you don’t feel like a woman.

I’m more confused by what they’re describing themselves as. Is non binary a gender? Have I got my understanding of that wrong?

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thebewilderness · 21/08/2018 23:21

Don't most people put that level of self consciousness behind them in their early twenties unless it is a symptom of a mental illness?
I know people who feel they are being watched and judged constantly but they are aware that it is them and their imaginaries that are the problem, not other people.

arranfan · 21/08/2018 23:28

Is non binary a gender?

Now, to many of us, this would seem like the sort of "Paradox, a Paradox, a most amusing paradox" of the sort immortalised by Gilbert & Sullivan.

However, others would say non-binary:
is/not a gender (identity);
does/not mandate 'they' etc. as pronouns;
can identify as non-binary women/men (similarly to Edward Lord) etc.

There is no clarity but it's not an area where clarity is deemed necessary (it might even be deemed oppressive as in examples where non-binary people complain about the use of pronouns that are coded to their appearance) until it suits somebody's agenda.

heresyandwitchcraft · 21/08/2018 23:31

AAIK, in current trans theory non-binary is its very own gender identity, just like your conception of whether you're a man or woman. There are many many arguments on YouTube about "how many genders" there are. I believe that non-binary is also an umbrella term, wherein you can describe your gender identity in whichever way is most right for you, and it can change (gender-fluid). This is why Facebook has something like 70+ gender identities. Theoretically, there could be an infinite number of different possible ways to describe gender identity because people are confusing personality with some quasi-biological notion of gender which are all seen as equally valid.

rosy71 · 21/08/2018 23:32

It was very confusing. If you don't identify as male or female, why do you need to be in the men's loos?

IfIWasABirdIdFlyIn2ACeilingFan · 21/08/2018 23:36

This is why Facebook has something like 70+ gender identities.

Huh?? Shock really?

So what I’m understanding is that gender and/or non binary means whatever the person discussing it means even though someone else would say it was something else, they’re both right because it’s what they think?

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IfIWasABirdIdFlyIn2ACeilingFan · 21/08/2018 23:38

Exactly rosy! This person says they aren’t a man. So why would they go to the bathroom where a) they can’t dispose of their sanitary rubbish and b) they don’t feel safe?

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PerverseConverse · 21/08/2018 23:41

Christ, that sentence made my brain hurt. Genuine question: where the fuck has all this nonsense come from? (I don't mean genuine gender dysphoria). I'm new to all this and trying to get my head round it.

thebewilderness · 21/08/2018 23:46

I think the way it works is that Enby (NB) is a gender identity inasmuch as not identifying as a gender is an identity.

WichBitchHarpyTerfThatsMe · 21/08/2018 23:47

ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, I'm special I am!

I so want to go about my business quietly without drawing attention to biological sex, which I reject as a non-binary person. So I'll plaster my face and name all over the internet advertising the fact that I menstruate, that'll help my gender dysphoria that will....

I have no further words to add .....

heresyandwitchcraft · 21/08/2018 23:51

Here is an article about the Facebook thing:
www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/facebook/10930654/Facebooks-71-gender-options-come-to-UK-users.html

So what I’m understanding is that gender and/or non binary means whatever the person discussing it means even though someone else would say it was something else, they’re both right because it’s what they think?
Well, the principle here is that gender identity is a highly individual, personally felt thing. There is really no way of questioning anyone else's gender in this theory, because it's how a person feels/identifies.
When someone says they are non-binary, it basically just means they do not identify with their biological sex (or the stereotypes that come with that sex, such as acting in a "feminine" manner). But they don't identify as a member of the opposite sex, either. They're somewhere in the middle, or something else all together. And people really vary within the non-binary category as well.
I cannot answer the question as to why some non-binary individuals don't just use the single-sex facilities that are designed for their physical bodies... I suspect it is because they do not want to be associated with their actual sex, and see the little woman on the door as "invalidating their identity, and oppressive." Some non-binary individuals tend to push for gender-neutral (unisex) options. Some non-binary people might actually be fine with using the ladies'.
Basically, YANBU.
This is very confusing.
It comes from a philosophy called Queer Theory (I think), but I can't actually get into it as I find it completely unreadable and nonsensical.

IfIWasABirdIdFlyIn2ACeilingFan · 21/08/2018 23:51

So I'll plaster my face and name all over the internet advertising the fact that I menstruate

Dont forget the photo of me actually bleeding! Grin

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IfIWasABirdIdFlyIn2ACeilingFan · 21/08/2018 23:56

I think I’m even more confused than before. Thank you heresy for explaining and for the link. I think i’ll Need to read it a few times before I can understand it.

Am I to assume then that I have a gender even though I don’t have a gender? Is not having a gender, a gender? Confused I don’t want a gender. Can I just say that and people accept that I don’t and am not on any gender spectrum or umbrella? Or is that not allowed?

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AbsintheFriends · 22/08/2018 00:08

Apparently, it’s easier to ask an entire community to undergo major surgery than for other folks to just stop gendering periods and let us menstruate in peace

I wanted to be sympathetic and understanding, I really did. BUT FFS.

heresyandwitchcraft · 22/08/2018 00:12

LOL! I think you'll find that it's all more confusing, the more you look into it. It used to be somewhat simpler when everyone agreed there are two sexes (and trans theory said there were two "gender identities"). At some point, the "trans" idea started to encompass a whole spectrum of genders, and the number of genders only seems to be multiplying.
This is part of the reason why I became so gender-critical. What you need to know is that trans theory now basically says these gender identities should be considered to be more important than your biological sex... But the gender-identities themselves are impossible for anyone else to check, and many of them are VERY vaguely defined.

Am I to assume then that I have a gender even though I don’t have a gender? Is not having a gender, a gender? confused I don’t want a gender. Can I just say that and people accept that I don’t and am not on any gender spectrum or umbrella? Or is that not allowed?

Trans theory would say that everyone has a gender identity. They would probably say you are "cis gender," which means you are your sex and you "identify with" the roles attached to that sex. In other words, if you are a female who says you're a woman, this means you identify with (on some level) the roles and expectations attached to "womanhood," such as wearing feminine clothing or behaving submissively.
Many feminists dispute all of this - vehemently. But trans theory will say you are "cis gender", unless you accidentally fall under the trans umbrella by being labelled "agender" (meaning your gender identity is that you don't have a gender)...
There have been many arguments on this board about this very subject.

Personally, I just define myself by my sex and I don't worry about anything else. I do wish more people were able to do that. It's really the only anchor we have in this "debate," because once you're only talking about gender, then things get very strange.

IfIWasABirdIdFlyIn2ACeilingFan · 22/08/2018 00:17

See I do only define myself by sex. Which is woman. But apparently, that doesn’t mean what I think it means anymore and I can’t use woman to mean female. But also I can’t use female because that’s a gender too, apparently. So there is nothing I can use that indisputably tells people what I am.

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BraveAndStunning · 22/08/2018 00:18

Basically they are trying to stealth boast that they consider themselves to be way more interesting than you, you boring vanilla fucker

jellyfrizz · 22/08/2018 00:28

Am I to assume then that I have a gender even though I don’t have a gender? Is not having a gender, a gender?

Yes, it’s agender. Grin gender.wikia.com/wiki/Agender

IfIWasABirdIdFlyIn2ACeilingFan · 22/08/2018 00:30

I don’t want to be agender. Can I self Identify out of it? I guess the rules are up to each individual so, yes! I can! Grin eh voila! I am no gender. None, zip, zero.

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IfIWasABirdIdFlyIn2ACeilingFan · 22/08/2018 00:31

Et voila! Bloody autocorrect!

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