Personal problem,

[rightknockered]

Not sure if this the right forum for this, although this is a problem related to how men perceive women and how we are socially conditioned to compete with each other from a young age. I basically think sisterhood is a myth, most women are competing with each other and can never truly be friends. That has been my experience and I'm tired of it. I don't know how to deal with it and I'm tired of making effort with people. I feel defeated. I don't want to be a part of it. I don't want this for my daughter and I don't want to have to teach her how to manoeuvre around it all. I would go into more detail but I have done so before and had myself torn apart on mumsnet. I'm just hope this is a safe space to chat about it.

OP, do you feel differently when people can’t see you? Like on here for example? Not sure this thread is the most heartwarming example but since you’re posting on mumsnet have you found some kind of support and community here?

Some women will judge your appearance for sure. I don’t think it’s down to literally competing for men so much as feeling bad about themselves. Could you try and be curious or compassionate about where they are coming from? It might feel different then.

I can't escape my appearance.
You can’t in a sense, but I do think you could learn to feel entirely different about it and other people’s reactions. As with the women judging you, the way you feel about them has at least as much to do with how you feel about yourself. If it’s bothering you then it’s worth changing - give counselling a go and see what you find out.

I don’t see why this wouldn’t be a feminist topic. The OP is asking about relationships between women which she sees as being tainted by societal conditioning about relations between men and women.

I'm a bit at the idea that this isn't a topic for Feminism. And I can only assume that anyone who thinks women aren't competitive has never spent time at a mother and baby group. I think competitiveness is a human trait (possibly one reason why we've survived as long as we have) but, because women's sphere of influence is generally smaller, it manifests itself differently.

Most if not all of my close friends are female and I would say that, even with women I don't get on with, there's still a shared connection, e.g they understand like things male violence and harassment in a way that men don't, not even men I like. But unpleasant, unsupportive women certainly exist - in fact I object to any idea that they don't. We're women, not saints.

I think this is a great topic for this board. And I think it’s a topic that does need addressing as part of dismantling societal expectations. Namely, it’s in male interest for women to compete, because we generally are competing for Male attention.

I get where OP is coming from - as a teen and in my early 20s, I really struggled with female friendships. To me, they mostly felt competitive and bitchy.

I do better now, I’m my 30s, and I have to say, this movement is amazing for connecting with other women. I’m forging some pretty strong bonds, and I love the diversity in all of the women I work with. We seem to value our shared experiences, both lived and biological, but we also value each other’s strengths, weaknesses and quirks.

I do hope you will stick around and give it a chance. Much in, chat. Get active. It will come.

Women are awful. And wonderful. And aggressive and competitive and nasty. And compassionate and kind and brilliant. As in; woman are human.

It is patriarchy which has constructed female gender categories as nurturing and caring and endlessly giving.

But patriarchy also places such limits on female freedoms and such emphasis on how we look, that it's hardly surprising women turn on each other.

Those women who have hitched their wagons to men, have a vested interest in supporting the status quo, so they can be much fiercer in policing other women than any men. Of course, that's a win win for the patriarchy, it gets to sit back while women do the work, and learn to despise each other for it.

Competition and aggression are useful human traits; they made us the successful monkeys we are, but for some reason we're still surprised when women display these traits because.

But that doesn't mean women can't be friends, and I've often found common ground with women I have nothing else in common with, but our female bodies.

Women are people and so we act like people.
I think we all know why we view this as a problem until we stop and say wait a mo.

Oldstyle summed up my experience:
Then when I thought more about it I realised that there was probably a lot of competition (for men's approbation and attention primarily) when I was a teenager and in my early 20s and that it actually took some time before I really started to appreciate and prefer the society of women. Now all my closest friends are female and I find a real affirmative joy in female company.

and this too from Emma
women compete against each other in an unhealthy way (competition itself isn't unhealthy), when the only reward is male approval. When it's all about fitting into some model of hyper-femininity, being pretty enough, thin enough, well-groomed enough in order to attract the male gaze, then female relationships can become toxic.

My experience is, that the more some women have bought into patriarchy, and its value systems, the more critical/policing/competitive they are with other women. This can be in terms of appearance/clothes, or the consumerism of patriarchy. The more you (generic) move away from those values, the better the friendships with women.

Are you a pretty lady and try to hide it? Too many people competing. Most people it's just show.

I wonder if it is sibling rivalry that is being projected onto all women?

I believe OP feels she meets hostility from other women because they are jealous of her appearance.

Actually, we all read into other people what we expect to see. You have been conditioned to expect that reaction (bullied at school? Strange parenting?) and see it all the time.

I have a different conditioning. I'm surprised anyone remotely attractive or fit looking would want to be my friend. I assume they all think I'm a lazy slob (thanks mum). It takes me a while to get over it and respond positively.

I'd be really surprised if the women you meet do feel like that- one or two perhaps. Most will be too busy thinking about their to do list, and trying to remember what they have forgotten, to worry about you.

Women are awful. And wonderful. And aggressive and competitive and nasty. And compassionate and kind and brilliant. As in; woman are human

I agree with this- the rest of your "ooh it's patriarchy to blame" - no.

Finally found the thread I was on about. Lots of examples relevant to this thread when you read through the responses from posters.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3080265-Women-prefer-working-for-male-bosses?pg=1&order=