Sarah Vine weighs in on gender-neutral loos in the DM

[BoreOfWhabylon]

And for once I find myself in full agreement with her
www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-6069359/SARAH-VINE-writes-sums-modern-world-better-gender-neutral-loos.html

Whitehall is not the only culprit. Everywhere you look — in schools, prisons, universities, local authorities and businesses — you will find people in authority too cowardly to push back against this relentless drive to enforce the whims of the few at the expense of the many.

To dismiss those of us who oppose these so-called gender-neutral spaces as non-inclusive bigots is one of the biggest collective acts of sexual aggression towards women we have seen in recent years.

In seeking to uphold the rights of men to re-cast themselves as female, we are invading precious and vital women-only spaces in a manner that is offensive and even intimidating towards women.

Aaarghhh! weighs not wieghs!

• [Message from MNHQ - we've edited this now]

A stopped clock is right twice a day. And she is right on this.

I agree with that quote but that leaves me so-o-o-o conflicted.

Ahh well, if someone says something that's right, then it's right.

I don't know who Sarah Vine is and I don't care. What I do care is that I agree with what she has said.

I am delighted every time the DM runs a gender-critical story, because of the huge readership. Over 400 comments already and most agreeing it is nonsense.

I also find myself wondering if her husband shares her views and, if so, how many of his colleagues might also do so?

'Because in the twisted logic of the modern world, a woman has more rights if she has elected to become one via hormone therapy and surgery than if she were born one.'

I am delighted every time the DM runs a gender-critical story, because of the huge readership.*

Glad the comments are standing. When they exposed Dress Badly, the comments stuck at 4. I submitted a comment, but nothing.

It's still stuck at 4 I think because Carter and their unstoppable cash machine pulled wank, sorry, I mean rank.

TerfsUp she's a journalist who frequently writes for the DM. She's married to Michael Gove.

I was going to encourage TerfsUp to remain as ignorant as possible about Sarah Vine and her world.

Sarah Vine seems to be under the impression that men need surgery and hormones to transition to women. No, Sarah. They can remain just as nature made them and still call themselves women. And enter our spaces.

Where's that three set venn diagram again? The one that shows the opinion overlap between genderists, conservatives, and radfems.

@beefycakes that is the best thing I have heard this year. Where is it from?

If she has to share a bathroom with Michael Gove at home, I can see why she'd be against gender neutral loos

Good point AncientLights. Wonder if SV's on Twitter so someone can point this out?

MEE OW
ToeToToe

Like it

I said this on another thread but I'm going to have to form my own opinions without the help of Sarah Vine. She is fairly openly homophobic and doesn't care about women. Her stance on this comes from a place of transphobia.

Yes a stopped clock might be right twice a day, but I can still tell the time without referring to Sarah Vine.

Oh and for any anti-women activitists who are spying on this thread: me happening to agree with Sarah Vine on this does not make me have any less conviction on my own view. As someone else said, Hitler and I probably would have agreed that the sky is blue, that doesn't mean I agreed with the murder of 6 million Jews.

The sky is blue. The sun sets in the West. Men aren't women.

The Daily Mail does have a huge readership. And the comments reflect them. I wouldn't say they are shot through with feminist theory, but the commentors, like almost everyone, get it immediately.

Partly because 'pervert, partly because 'PC gorn mad.' And, of course, that £8000 sign...

So, if Sarah Vine is reading this, please note that yes it's quite true you don't have to have any kind of modification whatsoever, to be trans. Your husband could be trans this afternoon. And you and everyone else would be considered transphobic for challenging it.

You might ask your readership to consider the difference between a cross dresser who gets sexual kick from accessing women's stuff, and a transwoman.

According to Stonewall, there isn't one.

It's a good start, but would have been better if she had mentioned that a huge percentage of transwomen do not have surgery and and are actually fully intact males. Not women at all. Woman don't have a penis.

I dislike Sarah Vine intensely and she has no scruples about writing poisonous pieces to serve her own / her husband's ends. This does make me wish she would use her writing ability to better purpose more often. Some very good points here.

The interesting thing about this though is Vine's ability to offer a populist take on something and for it to reach a wide audience. To name this as sexual aggression against women, for such an audience, does usefully put the idea out there.

Stickerladies pulled wank, sorry, I mean rank.
As a child I couldn't pronounce my R's and often regress if I am talking to someone who also can't pronounce R. It can be embarrassing as I assume they will think I am making fun of them.
I may also regress when typing. Or it may be autocorrect. Or it may be correct.

bd67th
I think it's this one

Ah, I can imagine

One of my DCs (now 12) struggles with rs and th so it's a good job nobody likes Ian Rankin in my house.

Anyone wondering why handmaidens handmaiden, the many comments from men on that article demonstrate it clearly:

You may only talk about women's oppression if:

You centre men and make it clear that men have it JUST AS BAD and it's probably worse for them poor darlings
And apologise for not mentioning them a lot
And be clear that NAMALT and most are lovely and much better than women are
And get men on side and comforted and reassured before hinting that things for women may not be perfect, but only if everyone doesn't mind you hinting and you do it nicely.

There are rules for gaining and holding male approval.
Women are well trained in those rules.
Men enforce those rules quite openly.
Many women depend on male approval to feel safe, comfortable, seen and ok in themselves.

I also couldn't pronounce TH - it seems to be quite common to have difficulties with both. I was sent to elocution classes to learn to annunciate clearly like what I do but just had to learn endless poems to recite with my mispronunciation.
Tempting to have some fun getting your DC to go into a bookshop asking from books about Rankin though.

I find it deeply unsettling when I feel even a tiny bit glad that the odious Sarah Vine has written a piece I broadly agree with in the daily fail. I know very well that she’s not a friend to people like me, and would throw me under the bus and give me an extra kick for good luck if she could. The cognitive dissonants makes my brain hurt.
I suppose I can take comfort in the fact that she’d be deeply distressed if she realised a disabled lesbian agreed with her, if only on one thing.
These are strange days indeed.