Due to see MP about GRA/women's rights. Any advice?

[Stickerladiesoftheworldunite]

I'm due to see my female MP soon. I intend to focus on the GRA consultation and my concerns about enabling any male who self ids as a woman into women's spaces.

I also want to add my concerns about my son's school being a Stonewall.Champion school and my wider concerns around young people and this trend, about what's being taught in local schools regarding sex and gender.

I'm trying to stick to those points and relate national concerns to the MP's constiuency.

I need to be ready for any typical counter arguments and responses.

I've played devil's advocate below and would like some succinct water tight answers (and evidence) to support my answers. I do have answers, but they may not be as eloquant as some on here.

What do I actually want my MP to do about my concerns? What can they do?

What about the small number transsexuals who have had full surgery? Shouldn't they be able to use wcs?

Why can't we simply share facilities? Why take away from trans rights? (I recall somebody wrote a good analogy of a small cake being divided up.- saying women's cake wasn't that big to begin with after we fought for single sex spaces).

Do I 'object' to trans men using men's toilets?

And any other salient points I should mention.

Thanks

Ask him about convicted violent offenders such as Stephen Mottershead and William Jaggs, and ask why they are allowed in women's spaces such as changing rooms, toilets, hospital wards and prisons.

Thanks all- have managed to get my pack together and will let you know how it goes.

While my notes were out I finally managed to tell Baroness Williams what I think of her ghastly comments and her pompous claim that she is an 'uber' feminist.

Rowantrees
In James Kirkup's latest article he refers to a case that is yet to be able to be fully reported on. Do you think it is the one you are referring to?

@macaraux

I think that James K is referring to the upcoming case of Tara Hudson. Hudson has previous convictions for violence and was sentenced to a term of imprisonment for yet another violent offence. Hudson is suing the Ministry of Justice for NOT allowing them to serve their sentence in a woman's prison.

150,000 people signed a petition for Hudson to be transferred to a woman's prison, including Tim Farron. Despite that pressure, the prison service held firm (actually, it bottled out with an early release), but is expected to put up a robust defence.

Ask your MP a) if she genuinely believes that women have penises, b) how many of her constituents she thinks believe that, and c) whether she thinks someone so detached from reality as to believe that should be an MP.

Thanks all. That is another chilling tale R0wan. It's the cult that keeps giving...

James Kirkup latest article, 'Is the BBC scared of the transgender debate?'
(extract)
"FPFW is concerned that allowing male-born sex offenders to be imprisoned with female-born inmates (who are vulnerable and very often have been victims of sexual abuse) puts women at risk. For the avoidance of doubt, I’m not pretending to be neutral here: I think that concern is a valid one and I’m not convinced current prison policy has sufficient regard for the wellbeing of female prisoners in this context. (There’s more to come on this issue, incidentally, but much of it is subject to court action and can’t yet be reported. But I think there are some awkward questions coming for prison chiefs and politicians alike, in due course.)" continues

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/08/is-the-bbc-scared-of-the-transgender-debate/

'Transgender inmate charged with sex offences at Wakefield jail'
18 July 2018
A transgender prisoner has been charged with committing four sexual offences against inmates at a women's jail in West Yorkshire.

"Karen White, 51, is accused of four counts of sexual touching at New Hall Prison, Wakefield.

The offences are alleged to have taken place between September and November last year.

She appeared before magistrates earlier this month and is due to appear at Leeds Crown Court in August.

More from Yorkshire

Ms White, who was born male but now identifies as a woman, has since been moved to a male prison.

Ministry of Justice (MoJ) guidance says in the "great majority" of cases transgender prisoners are allowed to "experience the system" in the gender in which they identify.

The department said there were "strict safeguards" to prevent abuse of the way transgender prisoners are managed, and attempts to undermine the system were rare."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-44877856

thread;
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3309758-This-never-happens-male-offenders-in-female-prisons

Thanks - the evidence around prisons is startling. I can't even begin to imagine what female prisoners have to face when such dangerous predators appear.

Who cares about those women? As long as the one violent rapist gets his way. It is sickening.

MPs care - understandably - about getting re-elected. The number one fact I'd be trying to get across is how unpopular the proposal to introduce self-ID is. As the link shows, only 13% of Tory voters support it, and only 18% of the electorate as a whole.

Remind him how unpopular mixed hospital wards were. Self-ID will mean mixed everything: wards, changing rooms etc. How does he think it will play with the public if their daughters can't use the loo because a man might be in it, and their mothers sharing hospital wards with men?

Don't forget the Hampstead Ponds. There were 3 ponds; male, female and unisex. there are now 3 unisex ponds

Nope: there are now 2 unisex and a male pond

Thanks - the evidence around prisons is startling. I can't even begin to imagine what female prisoners have to face when such dangerous predators appear.

Who cares about those women?

Prison governors, Francis Crook (Howard Penal Reform League), prison officers have and are trying.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/governors-fight-trans-inmates-in-women-s-jails-vg0kpv5q0

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5798945/Trans-women-convicted-men-attack-vulnerable-inmates.html

The thing about prisoners is that many don't have a vote and prisoners' rights are, if anything, a vote-loser. I'm sorry to say it, but it's true. We need to be strategic: the best way of protecting women prisoners is to get MPs to see the general threat that self-ID poses to women in all contexts, not to try to get them (with a few honourable exceptions) worked up about prisoners' rights.

I would certainly mention the recent attacks on women prisoners as an example of the harm that self-ID can do, but I wouldn't dwell on the prisoner aspect, given that you only have 10 minutes.

(I am a long-term GC MNetter by the way but now with new account following MN's cock ups with data protection)

THe offender profile of women in prisons is well established. It informs the new government policy regarding female prison estate:

"The government cited statistics showing almost 60 per cent of female offenders have experienced domestic abuse – an estimated 24 to 31 per cent have dependent children and those in jail or on probation are more than twice as likely to suffer mental health issues as men.

Almost half of all female prisoners in England and Wales say they committed their offence to support the drug use of someone else, the Ministry of Justice said, while many more are substance abusers themselves."

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/women-prison-uk-community-sentences-centres-reoffending-rates-children-funding-a8418271.html

The point in raising the Prisons thing is not primarily because of women prisoners' vulnerability. The treatment of women prisoners is a separate campaign.

It's more about:

1. The abuse of 'transgender' declarations, in order to escape male prison regimes.
2. Rebutting the argument that 'transwomen are women" by pointing to male pattern offending of transfemmes - violence, indecency with children, rape
3. Exposing predatory men cloaked in women's garb.
4. The "grooming" of key players in the criminal justice system to accept trans ideology (that's you, Stonewall) - so the police charge men as women; the courts insist that women who have been assaulted by transfemme men respect the pronouns (Tara Wolff); a 150,000 people sign a petition to transfer a thug like Tara Hudson to the female estate; and a paedophile emerges from prison with a new name, appearance and birth certificate saying 'female'.

That's why I talk about women's prisons. It is a window into grooming, absurdity and risks.

Oh, I said sex is real and gender is a social construct.

I don't think Germaine Greer has anything to worry about, but I did my bit.

Bravo OP!

Well done op. Please can you repost the whole thing while adjusting the bit about Dusie Green's child who was 16

I am really afraid that the whole post will be lost because of that one typo, and its such an amazing post. People thrive on complaints and litigation.

Maybe mnhq can edit

How do I repost?
Should I report that post?

UPDATE:

I saw my MP today. For info she is Conserative.

I began with the gambit "so Penny Mordaunt says TWAW and that's the starting point of the GRA review"

I asked her did she feel the same. She admitted she didn't really know about the review/debate and would need to think about it. I could see she was shocked at the claim though.

Then we moved on to who falls under that big umbrella and how many still have penises. Would she be happy for an 11 yr old girl to be changing with men and getting dressed/showering with penises around. She shook her head.

I covered Dress Bradley, Willy Madagain, Gregor Pervy, Maria Killer ignoring advice re prisons and listening to BJ, I mean JB, Baron Williams and most of the motley crew.

I talked of Ann Sinnot's resignation.

BBC reporting was mentionef (she laughed at bbc in recognition of their absurdity).

I talked Guides, schools (couldn't cover Bonerwall too much but mentioned schools on her patch and a CEO's son's castration, religion, prisons, the case of those 2 girls who were sexually abused in the supermarket toilet.

Attacks on women. Twitter. She was shocked about the attack on the 60 yr old woman at the WPUK meeting and that women could no longer meet to discuss women's rights.

I said that this is the biggest roll back of WR fot 100 years

That we cannot change hard fought for rights and protections based on feelz (she really got that) thanks Posie.

And whoever said on MN "what we are actually arguing about is whether adult female human beings should be permitted to define ourselves separately from men"

I did all that in 15 mins (poor woman, we covered a lot and she could barely get a word in - but I wanted to cover some ground).

I left her with some stats, a leaflet from this thread, a breakdown of how this would affect constituents (so the Muslim and Jewish women, the girls, the grandmother, the disabled woman, the mother, the father, the sports team etc.) and a women don't have penises sticker (ok, that last one is a joke) grin

This is the single most important women's issue I have known in my 45 years.

I didn't expect her to know chapter and verse but it goes to show there's much to be done if some MPs don't know.

My general feeling is she gets it. She looked bemused that Penny had said TWAW and she clearly didn't believe in penises in bathrooms. She also talked about WR being hard fought for, so here's hoping. I may be naieve, but you have to plant that seed.

She's asked me to send any more info across and a letter for Penny (though we know where Penny will file that).

I said more women are standing up and that I will be campaigning.

It feels cathartic - my first time saying it to anyone but my family. OK, she didn't protest, but I realised I know more about this than I think.

I reported version 1 of that post.
Sorry, thought you meant repost the thread, which would be some mean feat

Well done, OP! You've done brilliantly.