Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Kink and sworn affadavits

53 replies

FermatsTheorem · 10/08/2018 19:00

This is prompted by the Laura Huteson thread.

For those who haven't read it, Laura was killed by Jason Gaskell. He severed her carotid and jugular (using a knife he kept under his pillow for use, so he says, in "sex games"), then claimed it was a sex game gone wrong. He pleaded guilty to manslaughter and has got six years. This is only one such case recently - in another recent case, a woman was strangled by a man she'd met in the bar that night who claimed to have been engaging in consensual "breath play" gone wrong. (With a man she'd only just met. As my Scottish mother would have said, "Aye, that'll be right...")

Anyway, I've started a separate thread because I have a suggestion of a practical nature, for some activism. It struck me that if I were a younger woman and still dating, I'd be tempted to make out a sworn affadavit, saying that my tastes in sex were very vanilla, and if my dead body were to be found, having been strangled, anally penetrated and/or cut with a knife, and the defendant claimed that it was a sex game gone wrong, then the bastard would be lying because there was no way I would consent to that. Any lawyers out there know if such a document would carry any weight?

Do you think there would be any mileage in trying to persuade young women to make such a statement as a political act? As a way of saying "Men are getting away with murder here. No more. We want them to know that in the event of our death, we will still be able to speak, and let the legal system know 'I did not consent'."

OP posts:
Iused2BanOptimist · 11/08/2018 11:17

WewantJustice Yes, the Facebook group Refuse to date men who do porn had 27,000 members and they've taken it down. Rumour has it the old adage Follow the money applies here. So glad another has popped up. I loathe FB but might send a group invitation to the DD.
Thank you for starting a petition. Thanks
This has gone on long enough and it is a disgrace.

ToeToToe · 11/08/2018 12:05

ToetoToe, you know Facebook banned the group "Refuse to date men who use porn"?

I didn't know that! That's just typical of FB, I don't know why I'm surprised. Facebook harbours some of the worst misogyny imaginable, and we're not allowed to fight back against it.

I will educate my DD and my sons about this.

I remember a thread on here years ago "porn makes men crap in bed - tell your sons" - I fully agree.

Tanith · 11/08/2018 12:10

It’s changed from what it used to be.

In the mid 1940s, Neville Heath was convicted and hanged for the murders of two women. His trial centred on the first one, that was widely thought to be a sex game gone wrong: the victim was portrayed at the time as a masochist. It came out later that she barely knew him.

He was still charged and convicted of murder and Margery Gardner was considered to have been murdered, consensual sex games or not.

BettyDuMonde · 11/08/2018 12:48

Due to my interest in tattoos I have a lot of kinky friends, and like Bd says upthread, the culture is to be very much consent aware, and written contracts/agreements are not unusual.
Picking up a stranger and indulging in life threatening acts without discussion is almost unheard of and definitely not advised.

Perhaps this man picked up his interest online without being part of that community, but i’m afraid he’s going to be the type who is back in the news in ten years time for rape or murder with everyone asking how a man that killed a woman during a ‘sex game’ was allowed free to do it again :/

Totally agree re: don’t date men who watch porn.
I’m on husband number 3 already though and can’t face anymore wedding cake.
I will be a crazy dog lady though -retired greyhounds are just like big cats. I’m already a crazy plant lady,

Bineverywhere · 11/08/2018 13:32

Middle-aged divorcee here with a dog at my feet, cat on my bed and just bought another horse. Life could be worse!

Whenever I feel the urge to dip my toes in the dating pool I remember "ugh porn-addled men" and trot off to Google to look at pictures of butch femmes instead.

Ironic really. These men think they're getting better at sex... All it's doing is pushing a bunch of us to the other team.

QuentinSummers · 11/08/2018 14:01

I don't think I really appreciated what porn does to men's views of sex and performance until recently. I'm turning properly mary Whitehouse about it

pombal · 11/08/2018 14:10

You can’t slit someone’s throat by accident.

It reminds me of the judge in the 80’s who said if women don’t want sex all they have to do is close their legs.

Wtf is wrong with these men.

KimCheesePickle · 11/08/2018 14:34

If either of the big "D"s separate me & DH, I'm either giving lesbianism a go, or becoming a crazy cat lady. 11 - 12 years ago internet dating was fraught, and that was before smart phones, social media and hyper-porn took off. They weren't exactly coy... on one site that had its own IM, one guy's opening gambit was some anatomical boasting and what he'd like to do with it. Not even a cheery "hello" Confused At least I didn't have to contend with dick pics.

IfNotNowThenWhen1 · 11/08/2018 19:24

I swear I have never had a dick pic! I know it goes on but I must look too scary or something Grin

AnyFucker · 11/08/2018 19:28

I love cats, me

SirVixofVixHall · 11/08/2018 21:03

I’d go with cats too. Or terriers. Or cats and terriers and lots of birds. I couldn’t date a man who watched porn. DH and I have been together for nearly 24 years. He’s never watched porn thank God.

Aaaahfuck · 11/08/2018 22:18

It's a really good point I read about this on BBC news app and want to look into more. Apparently the judge said the sex was consensual. However I'm not sure how this can be determined. Also as far as I'm concerned consent can be withdraw at any time. So even if it was consensual surely she would have withdrawn consent when he began to cut her? This sentence is so pathetic. It really does seem the perfect way to get away with murder.

SirVixofVixHall · 11/08/2018 22:57

Yes. Rape and strangle a woman , or cut her throat, and say she liked rough sex, or s&m. Cry and say it was a “sex game gone wrong” and thanks to the all pervasive influence of hard core porn you will be believed. Sickening and terrifying.

Iused2BanOptimist · 11/08/2018 23:11

I don't see how anyone can state sex was consensual, as the judge said, when the sex involved a knife to the throat. Who knows? MAYBE that bit was consensual (although presumably not the bit about sticking the knife into the throat and severing arteries). However, I would imagine that knife against throat would be quite a popular rapist technique. And with the unfortunate woman being dead and unable to give her side of the story I have no idea how anyone can distinguish between forced sex at knife point and kinky sex at knifepoint.

Ifonlyus · 12/08/2018 08:00

What a horrific case. I also don't understand the defence or how it can be legitimised.

Yup - if anything happens to DH I'm going to become crazy dog lady, crazy yoga lady, and crazy gardening lady. There is nothing crazy about that. I have also vowed that if DH dies before I'm ancient or leaves me, I will look forward to a life with female friends and living alone with none of the compromises marriage brings.

Kind you, if I die, there is a man available who is a decent sort who doesn't watch porn. Perhaps these men can set up a FB group for dating. 'widower of a feminist and feminist ally who also doesn' watch porn' to more easily identify themselves.

I have no idea what we tell our daughters. How do we prepare them for sexual encounters with porn-sick males. Whenever my 15 year old reads a teen romance or watches a teen film I wonder if she is being betrayed as to the true nature of many of the young men out there.

karyatide · 12/08/2018 08:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WeWantJustice · 12/08/2018 08:17

I have no idea how anyone can distinguish between forced sex at knife point and kinky sex at knifepoint.

And that's why if someone is dead, the assumption should be that it was forced sex at knifepoint. You should have to actively prove that the person you have just killed, was egging you on to push the knife in harder.

If you can't prove that and yet you're still not guilty of murder, we have in effect as a society decided that men have the right to murder women as long as they do it as part of a sexual attack and look sorry afterwards

Such a society is extraordinarily dangerous to half the population. The law should protect the public from this and at the moment it clearly isn't doing so.

The petition I've set up is being checked and once it's passed the suitability checks, I'll post it here.

ifonlyus · 12/08/2018 08:38

Wewantjustice. I will sign and share your petition when it is available. Thanks for doing that.

Iused2BanOptimist · 12/08/2018 10:27

I will sign as soon as the petition is set up. Thank you for doing this WewantJustice
I wonder if someone should let Hull News know about the petition when it is up. (I can't find the link now to confirm which local news it was but they had done an excellent piece explaining the sentencing in detail). The family and friends of Laura Hutchison may get some small comfort from knowing about the petition.

IfNotNowThenWhen1 · 12/08/2018 10:28

Whenever my 15 year old reads a teen romance or watches a teen film I wonder if she is being betrayed as to the true nature of many of the young men out there.

I think that's a bit unfair. Porn isn't young mens "true nature". It's sold to them just like junk food is sold to children and is addictive to adolescent boys in the same way. That doesn't mean they don't know it's bad for them, and I really think most of them know the difference between love and sex, and porn. Teen boys are at heart very romantic just like girls, they are just sold very different products.
Sensible ones have female friends and talk to them about this stuff.

Iused2BanOptimist · 12/08/2018 10:32

Ifonlyus I think every person reading this who has a daughter must feel a shiver of fear at the thought of the risks associated with dating and wonder how best to teach them about this. Gives a new perspective on safe sex.
When I have raised the topic of teaching daughters not to date men who do porn with colleagues at work I am laughingly told that is impossible as they all do porn. Sad

MorrisZapp · 12/08/2018 10:35

To me, this is where witness testimony comes in. If my best friend fell victim to a crime like this, I would know beyond reasonable doubt that she had not consented.

We discuss very personal issues and if she enjoyed kink I would know.

I would scream from the rooftops that he was a murderer. God help me I'd pack in my job and make getting her justice the focus of my entire life.

This case is so, so, fucking depressing.

MorrisZapp · 12/08/2018 10:37

And some of the 'defences' men give in court would be laughable if they weren't so tragic.

Remember that guy who claimed he hadn't raped and killed his victim, but they found his DNA, at which point he said that he had found her dead body in the street and had sex with her?

Men will say anything.

arranfan · 12/08/2018 10:47

Years ago, there was a catchphrase that men's ability to be charged with "accidental death" rather than murder should be pronounced, Man's laughter, rather than manslaughter.

placemats · 12/08/2018 11:05

Morris Men will say anything.

Men also lie. It's not women who lie, it's men.

Regarding women against men who watch porn on Facebook, a group, despite have over 27,000 followers was banned:

Perhaps these men can set up a FB group for dating. 'widower of a feminist and feminist ally who also doesn' watch porn' to more easily identify themselves.

I wouldn't believe them though. It's incredibly sad that it has come to only men who are widowers have the the credence. Their partner has to die. Though I doubt that group would be banned.

That's the problem I have now, especially with horrendous cases like the murder of Laura Huteson that have outrageously become all too common.