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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Anti-trans vandals are plastering vile ‘women don’t have penises’ stickers around London

999 replies

drradfem · 09/08/2018 20:12

www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/08/09/anti-trans-women-penises-stickers-london-stonewall/

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58
Bowlofbabelfish · 11/08/2018 19:41

imagine having to explain one of those to your six year old.

Shouldn’t be difficult. My toddler pointed out that I did not have a willy several months ago. No sweetie, mummies don’t have willies because they are girls. Ladies don’t have one, you and daddy do because you’re boys.
Toddler nodded sagely. Asked if sharks have willies*. Seems untraumatised by this exchange.

*to my great shame, as a scientist, I had to google this. Technically no, they don’t, they have a sort of cloaca but they have two penis like structures called claspers they use to grip and deposit sperm. Fascinating....

Anyway, telling a six year old that women don’t have willies should be fine.

SingeBuggerBlack · 11/08/2018 19:45

I definitely think ladies toilets/changing rooms are a great place to put these - they might not last long, but it gets to women!

Can I also suggest, if you have a sympathetic male ally, targeting men's spaces as well?

But in that case the 'Women don't have penises' line might not be the best option. Any ideas? I was thinking a quote from Graham Linehan. Or one of the responses from the Girl Guides.

MrsFogi · 11/08/2018 19:45

Someone has raised a concern about stickers where women will be visiting with children. Personally I don't have an issue with this - I have talked to all my dcs about this and you need to do so before they get to senior school. As I raised in another post my dd had an assembly in term one of year 7 and came home to tell me about how wonderful it is that girls can now take a pill and become boys (and vice versa). I have been battling since then with her accusing me of transphobia for voicing my opinions on self-id. Women need to cover the issue with their dcs (in an age appropriate way) before their schools and peers do (usually influenced by the Mermaids view of things).

UpstartCrow · 11/08/2018 20:00

I'm not entirely sure that they should be going in places where women are likely to be taking their children to the toilet - imagine having to explain one of those to your six year old.

You think a picture will be worse than having to explain a 'female penis'?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 11/08/2018 20:02

Just wanted to post on this thread to say what a great idea this is.

"Women don't have penises" is perfect. It's short, factual, and can't be realistically found to be hateful.

Anyone trying to argue against it would come across as slightly odd.

WRT to the men's may I suggest "Men have penises" ? Again it is short, factual and simple.

TimeLady · 11/08/2018 20:12

Women don't have penises is fine for the mens' too.

theOtherPamAyres · 11/08/2018 20:32

Rather than toilets where cleaners might have to scrub them off promptly, I much prefer public sites, on streets. I think that they will get more attention.

I liked that the originators placed them near news outlets like the Guardian and over adverts at bus stops. They tend to stay on public surfaces for longer.

FloralBunting · 11/08/2018 20:36

Yes, public spaces please. Sticking them in toilets reads like it's taking us back to the narrow confines of the toilet debate, which is such a misleading focus.

TheMostBeautifulDogInTheWorld · 11/08/2018 20:38

I thought it was a truth universally acknowledged that every six year old on the planet has at some deeply inconvenient moment said at the top of its voice "MUMMY! What's a penis?" So I can't get bothered about the idea of children seeing stickers with the word on.

("Suck my ladydick" on the other hand ... I kind of think, stick with the original message really ... )

TheMostBeautifulDogInTheWorld · 11/08/2018 20:41

I agree that some of the siting has been sheer genius!

(Perhaps worth thinking about CCTV when selecting sites more public than loos, mind you. Can't imagine anyone will be caring for now but if the campaign does get a lot of publicity (thanks, Pink News!) that might become more of an issue.

TimeLady · 11/08/2018 20:56

I've made little ones (with a hand-drawn penis) and they're ideal. I stuck one on the parking meter in the supermarket car park, where the ticket comes out. And watched surreptitiously from my car as the bloke behind me got his ticket and two trolley collectors went about their business right in front of it. Grin It was still there a couple of hours later when I got back, although it might be removed if they empty the money out overnight, I suppose. Depends though, if the employee is bothered or not.

I'm still a bit wary of CCTV; I went behind the scenes once in the shopping centre and was amazed at the bank of security monitors. I guess they might well have them in the lifts. I've got the stickers in my purse and I'm placing them randomly whenever I see the opportunity. I think for the bigger chalking or lipstick jobs, you'd be better with a wingman keeping watch.

LoveCompost · 11/08/2018 21:39

If they didn’t want anonymous stickers the TRAs should’ve engaged in debate rather than threatening and being vile to anyone who questions the nutty ideology . I never underestimate protests like this which lift morale and infuriate the opposition . Anyone seen/ read Alone in Berlin ? Don’t want to belittle the huge courage involved there but the cards posted were powerful and very time consuming for those trying to silence .

BoreOfWhabylon · 11/08/2018 22:08

TimeLady Just think of the fantastic publicity if someone was prosecuted for stickering though!

thebewilderness · 11/08/2018 23:55

The women don't have penises stickers have gone viral.

winecigsandchoc · 12/08/2018 00:00

I really want a copy of the bonerwall poster too! And as for useful hashtags I've always felt #sexmatters and #notoselfID were the most succinct.

paintedwingsandgiantrings · 12/08/2018 00:12

If they didn’t want anonymous stickers the TRAs should’ve engaged in debate rather than threatening and being vile to anyone who questions the nutty ideology

This ^^

BeyondRadicalisationPortal · 12/08/2018 00:22

I think "criminal conviction for malicious stickering" would be the type of offence I'd love to put on my CV! Grin

Iused2BanOptimist · 12/08/2018 00:29

I really, really hope someone with a bag full of stickers knows where Drs Christian and Harrop have their private practices and thoroughly stickers their name signs/entrance etc. Wink

CesiraAndEnrico · 12/08/2018 06:16

Rather than toilets where cleaners might have to scrub them off promptly, I much prefer public sites, on streets. I think that they will get more attention

I totally agree with you that public sites and on streets are fab for attention. They will be absolutely necessary to keep the snowball rolling down the mountain, gathering mass as it goes. But attention in these times, while easy enough to grab, is really really hard to hang onto.

To hang on to attention and achieve a slow burn of steadily rising numbers of people who independently join in (with stickers, pink post it notes + pen, chalk, lipstick, any of the other clever and beautifully curly minded ideas that have been posted) will be fundamental.

Most of them will never have protested before. Never have participated in even tiny acts of civil disobedience. Will wildly over estimate both the risks of CCTV and the fall out from being caught. Many will see themselves as having a lot to lose, be it a job where perfectly clean noses are a must, or friends/family who can't see beyond a willy sticker and focus on that rather than the intent and aim of the message.

Those people could turn a small pocket of resistance into a diversely motivated army of thousands upon thousands.

IME toilets have long been disproportionately decorated for several reasons.

The privacy means even those less prone to making a point, or waves, feel the risk/benefit balance is strongly in their favour where prying eyes can't see and accuse, let alone prove an accusation.

I had friends at school, good girls, quiet girls, squashed girls, who endured years of vicious bullying. They took a stand in the one place they could do so in relative safety. It made them feel less silenced and powerless. It gave a massive boost of morale to see a bullying princess squawk helplessly, in front of her sycophantic court, as she tried to work out which of her victims had made a public, perfectly cutting, sore point prodding point at the Princess' expense. And I saw the less enthusiastic, self defence motivated allies snicker in hidden solidarity when they thought nobody was looking.

For decades and decades loo artists have factored in a major benefit of their chosen canvas. It might not have the foot traffic of the street. But neither does it have the street's distractions. It can offer the advantage of tiny moments of nothing to do ....but, squint, go "huh? ohhhh!". With some people walking out with a non rapidly fading memory, that can compete to some extent with the bombardment of clickbait, information and real life shit to do that descends as soon they have finished washing their hands.

The loo has long been where the first seeds of subversive resistance to one's personal oppressors are sown, with a temporarily captive audience to boot.

CesiraAndEnrico · 12/08/2018 06:26

And PS, let's not underestimate the reluctant, "not quite go slow enough to be actually called out as a go slow nature" of some of the scraping off.

When the loos are also your workplace there is extra motivation to want to hang onto as many of the built in protections of safety, dignity and comfort as possible.

Plus few workers welcome with open arms the prospect of becoming a referee between service users more frequently, while having to enforce rules they don't necessarily agree with, at the expense of complainants they actually agree with.

tsonlyme · 12/08/2018 06:29

As an alternative to chalk and longer lasting, how about painting with bleach? A street artist in my locality did this a while back and I believe you can’t be prosecuted for cleaning a public space (although happy to be corrected)

thebewilderness · 12/08/2018 06:34

I will never ever forget when I went into town for evening training classes in ESL at one of the local Unis.
When I went in to use the loo there on the wall was an ever so carefully painted around list of rapists.

DuckingGoodPJs · 12/08/2018 06:49

So many great ideas. I look forward to the results. Grin

TerfsUp · 12/08/2018 07:12

My DH made a good point that a leaflet with the Anti Female Activist’s own words like “suck my lady dick” (who was it who said that and does anyone have a link/screenshot?)

That was Danielle Moscato in a tweet on International Women's Day. The actual tweet said: "Some women have penises. If you are bothered by this, you can suck my dick."

twitter.com/daniellemuscato/status/839611526998818817?lang=en

StealthPolarBear · 12/08/2018 08:05

"
It's topical because of the GRA consultation, and media love an excuse to publish a picture of a massive dick, don't they?!"
Boris is rarely off the front pages.

I'm really hoping to come across these stickers, might have to venture out :)

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