FB testing Dating app with 5 genders

[ShotsFired]

(So apparently even the mighty FB see a distinction between women/Trans women and men/trans men.)

They offer gender (FFS) as M/F and then go onto ask whether you most closely identify with Women, Trans Women, Trans Men, Men, Non-Binary.

They then go on to offer Men/Women/More options on the "I'm looking for..." page, followed by another W/TW/TM/M/NB section.

It'll be interesting to see what their final iteration is after the internal testing is completed and they have been harangued into the middle of next week by the TWAW hordes

twitter.com/wongmjane/status/1025475130569371648/photo/1

Well, they are clearly just trying to head off the inevitable storm when someone like heterosexual Gavin turns up on a first date to find a large bearded gentleman who says that they are a woman, and is sitting at a candlelit table for two at the Newcastle branch of Pitcher and Piano.

Interesting though. You sign up and pay to meet women, for example.

And you get matched with what you consider not to be a woman (what we all consider not to be a woman, frankly).

You have not got the service that you have paid for. Is the customer always right in this instance?

Are you a victim of fraud? Can you call trading standards? Can you sue Facebook?

Well, if Gavin did turn up and meet Jeff (in womanface), then the headlines will not look favourably on Facebook, will they. So maybe that would be an good outcome to show it up for the balderdash it is.

When the TRAs tried the 'cotton jocks' theory out on het dudes, there were a gazillion Gavins that shouted "no fucking way".

I wonder why that could possibly be

I think fraud must be a consideration, after the recent result the the gym in the States.

Well, they are clearly just trying to head off the inevitable storm when someone like heterosexual Gavin turns up on a first date to find a large bearded gentleman who says that they are a woman, and is sitting at a candlelit table for two at the Newcastle branch of Pitcher and Piano

How will it mitigate this if the Large Bearded Gentleman, let's call him Bruce, identifies as a woman?

But it's completely pointless.

If anyone can identify as anything and biological sex is a social construct then there is literally zero point in having any categories.

As we are repeatedly told, caring what "gential configuration" your potential sexual partners have is exclusionary, transphobic and frankly terribly passe.

So, they need to ditch sex / gender entirely and just do matches based on ? what type of pet you have or something.

As we are repeatedly told, caring what "gential configuration" your potential sexual partners have is exclusionary, transphobic and frankly terribly passe.

Good point Nothing. And yet, it is the genderists are insisting on all these categories, even for dating sites. And most of them claim to be 'pan' (it sounds so cool, much cooler than frumpy old 'bi') - so why so fussy as to what turns up at the other end of the search? Gads, don't tell me that the gender-fundamentalists actually exercise discerning selection for dating?

And perhaps this is all a bit "agenderist", after all, they claim not to even have one, and do they date? Probably a question I really don't want answered.

Trouble is, if bearded Bruce subscribes to the TWAW school of thought, he's going to tick the woman box anyway, not the transwoman one, because that's how he gets his validation.

And even if the first question was SEX, m/f, Gavin is still unlikely to be impressed if a hypothetical Belinda turns up brandishing a GRC. Legally Belinda would be able to tick the sex f and woman box.

It'll be interesting to see how this pans out. They've opened up a Pandora's Box, imo.

Gender
Sexual desire
Romantic desire
Are all separated out these days.

You could be e.g. an agender, biromantic greysexual pansexual.

The trivial matter of what bits you've got and who can stcik what where and whether any babies could result is immaterial and not an issue.

I noticed even Lily M was getting a hard time re: sexual orientation (not wanting to interact with another penis) on twitter over the weekend...

Definitely seems like a Pandora’s box - none of these options will please everyone and not everyone will use them in the way Facebook intends - if you look on datalounge.com you will see quite a few complaints about transmen not using the ‘trans’ function on dating apps.

I suppose the problem is that you don’t want to make your potential pool too small, but if widening it means you’ll only encounter people that would otherwise of ruled you out (privately and impersonally) you are setting yourself up for direct and personal rejection?

Perhaps we need some Gavins to be matched with Bruces for the self-ID penny to drop amongst the male half of the population.

Blimey re LM - what was the context? I don't really do twitter.

Why is a Labour spokesperson / political affliliated type talking about dicks on a public forum?

"Non-binary" tells you literally nothing about either what sex the person is or what gender stereotypes they enjoy acting out (for those to whom that's important), so in practice surely if you tick that box it means either "anyone, potentially" or "actually I do have a sexual orientation and preferences but I'm too scared to say so in case people shout at me".

twitter.com/FeministRoar/status/1026032847667322880?s=20

"Assuming genitals is a shitty thing to do" is probably my favourite line of the day.

A life lesson for us all, really.

Someone on the Feminist Roar Lily thread said Riley J Dennis was getting similarly chastised, so I just went and had a look for it:

twitter.com/RileyJayDennis/status/1024481888818216960?s=20

If Lily and Riley can’t follow the transphobia rules, what chance does the average Facebook dating app user have of complying? 🤓

Don't a lot of people have not so much a penis repulsion as a penis indifference? As in, it's about as sexy to them as a potted plant and entirely irrelevant to their sex life.

"Repulsion" seems to be designed for maximum drama.

The Lily Madigan conversation over the weekend is very relevant to this thread. Its magnificant in showing up the utter hypocrisy and nonsense all the trans gender stuff is in the first place. The point being made that you should 'educate' yourself if you don't tow the political correct line and shouldn't have certain boundaries and should just be accepting of everything without question. You are being asked to switch off feelings as 'biogotted'. The idea they could be based on sexual attraction or self protection isn't in the lexicion of the trans ideology on display here.

Lily was actually speaking the truth and was spot on - but was talked down and persuaded differently eventually, deferring to the 'greater wisdom' of others and because Lily was desparate to be 'nice' and to not be seen as prejudiced.

Its really rather sad to see to be honest. Lily you were right - but your double standards when it comes to preventing women from doing the same is staggering.

Part 1:

Lil Enby Cthuwu @madigan_lily
That's not what she's saying though. She's saying the words they used to reject her were the problem. Not wanting to date a trans woman is fine, but rejecting them by saying "I'm not into dick" is being needlessly cruel and also assumes she has one. You can let people down gently

lily @madigan_lily
‘But of course I knew the real reason’. Clearly, she is saying they didn’t want to date her because she is trans. And she follows that up by talking about the discrimination lesbian trans women face.

lily‏ @madigan_lily
‘One of them had the fucking nerve to say “I’m not into dick”’ - no one has to be into anything.

Lil Enby Cthuwu @CJOReilly3
She didn't have to say it. She could have said any number of things to let her down gently. Saying that is just being needlessly cruel. Letting someone down gently is something we are all supposed to be capable of.

lily‏ @madigan_lily
That doesn’t make them bigoted. They provided a valid reason in frank terms. They didn’t say “I’m not into men, and insinuate she was a man or anything like that”

Lil Enby Cthuwu @CJOReilly3
No they just assumed she had a penis. Which is pretty bigoted. She could have just said "no". She didn't need to bring her genitals into it. Do you normally ask someone about their genitals when you meet?

lily‏ @madigan_lily
You are just making assumptions now. How do you know they didn't disclose it? I tend to assume genitals frankly,

luna genesis evangelion @nbodylikesme
why tho

lily‏ @madigan_lily
Because I haven't dated a trans person.

luna genesis evangelion @nbodylikesme
ya but like: why do you care about their genitals?? jesus christ lily. this aint it, seriously.

lily‏ @madigan_lily
Because I have dating preferences that my assumptions inform.

luna genesis evangelion @nbodylikesme
aight, keep digging ur grave. this aint the hill to die on tho.

Lil Enby Cthuwu @CJOReilly3
Maybe don't do that. That's a little fucked up

lily‏ @madigan_lily
Sorry; I just do. Maybe it's not fab but I'm just being honest okay?

luna genesis evangelion @nbodylikesme
yeah and you're honestly trash for doing so

lily @madigan_lily
That's really mean. I'm not hurting anyone - all I do is try my best.

lily‏ @madigan_lily
To be clear; if I am wrong, it's just because I don't understand. I can't magically stop my brain making assumptions because that's not how my brain works. It's not like I act based on the assumption. It's the choices we make that matter, and I don't discriminate on assumption.

Part 2

Gareth @GarTbh
Interesting perspective - are you saying that it’s not transmisogynist to categorically exclude all trans women from one’s sexual preference?

lily‏ @madigan_lily
Dating is prejudicial - doesn’t mean it’s wrong. I’m a lesbian because I’m not into men; it doesn’t matter if they are a cis or trans man. I would expect anyone to respect my dating preferences.

Gareth‏ @GarTbh
Yep getcha but for me that comparison doesn’t align. You’re a lesbian so you’re categorically not into men (albeit cis or trans). I don’t view that as the same as someone who says they’re attracted to women (but not trans women)

lily‏ @madigan_lily
Just being I'm into women; doesn't mean I'm into every woman. One of my dating preferences is people around my age, for example. Another is a cute smile because I will just swoon.

Gareth‏ @GarTbh
I’m specifically addressing the reality that people exclude trans people from their sexual preference purely on the basis that they are trans.

lily‏ @madigan_lily
I don't know honestly, part of me thinks people probably can't help it. Another thinks we should all challenge our dating prejudices up to a point but I don't know what that point is.

Part 3

Lil Enby Cthuwu @CJOReilly3
That's not what she's saying though. She's saying the words they used to reject her were the problem. Not wanting to date a trans woman is fine, but rejecting them by saying "I'm not into dick" is being needlessly cruel and also assumes she has one. You can let people down gently

lily @madigan_lily
‘But of course I knew the real reason’. Clearly, she is saying they didn’t want to date her because she is trans. And she follows that up by talking about the discrimination lesbian trans women face.

Lil Enby Cthuwu @CJOReilly3
Well yeah. If 3 out of 4 people who reject you do so with blatantly bigoted phrasing, that is discrimination.

lily‏ @madigan_lily
Saying ‘I’m not into dick’ is not blatantly bigoted. It’s just a choice.

lily @madigan_lily
Me saying I’m not into men is similarly a choice

lily‏ @madigan_lily
Or Tories.

Lil Enby Cthuwu @CJOReilly3
Again. Her sexual preference is not a problem. Her choice to state it aloud to a trans woman's face very much is a problem.

Part 4

⚢ #KRO @_YourLocalGay
Assuming genitals is a shitty thing to do, if you mean to do it or not. That's pretty obvious.

lily‏ @madigan_lily
If I can't help it how does it make me shitty? It's not like I treat people differently.

⚢ #KRO @_YourLocalGay
ok but "I can't help it" isn't an excuse to keep doing it. if something bad is difficult to not do, you don't use that as a reason to not do it, especially when you're told it's a toxic behaviour.

lily‏ @madigan_lily
Keep doing what? I very consciously refer to people in gender neutral terms until I know their identity - my unconscious assumptions about genitalia have no impact at all.

⚢ #KRO @_YourLocalGay
Okay but they do. Gender neutral terms are brilliant but once you make assumptions about the genitals you think someone has you'll 100% treat them differently.

lily‏ @madigan_lily
No I don't. Because genitalia doesn't = gender so why would I treat them differently?

⚢ #KRO @_YourLocalGay
Genitalia absolutely doesn't = gender, so why are you making genital assumptions to begin with? Making assumptions about someone's genitals based solely on their appearance or identity is a bad thing to do.

lily‏ @madigan_lily
Because its in my subconscious. I can't help that I live in our society where most of us were brought up to assume gender. All I can do is just try and educate myself and others to make our society a little bit better by the time I leave it.

⚢ #KRO @_YourLocalGay
Being brought up to do something doesn't excuse you from doing it.

You aren't educating yourself, you're trying to dodge accountability when people have told you it's bad.

lily‏ @madigan_lily
Dodge accountability for something I'm doing subconsciously? Ugh I literally have read 2 articles in the last 10 minutes about this. Don't presume I'm not trying to educate myself.

lily‏ @madigan_lily
Can you suggest a resource that will help me?

⚢ #KRO @_YourLocalGay
Like... day to day transphobia and misgendering both pretty much start with assuming what genitalia someone has.

You shouldn't need resources to know that you need to actively try to not do these things, instead of just saying "I can't help my subconscious”

lily‏ @madigan_lily
Yes, I agree. Of course I'm actively trying not to assume genitalia, 100% i am. But it's a process. I'm just trying my best to undo the subconscious assumptions I was brought up to make. But they don't impact how I treat people.

⚢ #KRO @_YourLocalGay
But... they do. As much as you don't want them to, they do impact how you treat people. I'm really glad you're trying to work on this but please don't pretend genital assumptions don't impact how people are treated, by anyone.

lily‏ @madigan_lily
I will always work on this, you have my word. Please don't think less of me. I'm always happy to admit I'm not perfect but I'm always trying.

⚢ #KRO @_YourLocalGay
Girl I don't think less of you, literally everyone has problematic habits to work on. As long as we work on them. :)

lily‏ @madigan_lily
:) x

No way! Riley getting told off for not accepting penis? Oh that's just gorgeous.

That LM exchange has made me really sad, because it really shows how very desperate LM is for affirmation. The jokey reference to 'I wouldn't date a Tory' to try and diffuse the tension and the submissive scrabbling to prove that LM is still part of the gang (Please don't think less of me etc).

LM tried to hold the line of having LMs own feelings and attractions, but was verbally beaten down into complete submission.

Wow. Really not pleasant to witness that the TRA mindset really is pretty cannibalistic. If they are confident enough to do this kind of thing openly on Twitter, can you imagine the levels of this that go on among young lesbians, as an example?

I feel a bit sick now.