FB testing Dating app with 5 genders

[ShotsFired]

(So apparently even the mighty FB see a distinction between women/Trans women and men/trans men.)

They offer gender (FFS) as M/F and then go onto ask whether you most closely identify with Women, Trans Women, Trans Men, Men, Non-Binary.

They then go on to offer Men/Women/More options on the "I'm looking for..." page, followed by another W/TW/TM/M/NB section.

It'll be interesting to see what their final iteration is after the internal testing is completed and they have been harangued into the middle of next week by the TWAW hordes

twitter.com/wongmjane/status/1025475130569371648/photo/1

I hope LM and RD both retain their positions on their rights to date discriminately (something I think ALL people should have regardless of sexuality or gender identity) and are able to withstand external pressure enough to think critically about why they/the ideology they subscribe to are denying the same discriminatory rights to women (of the variety they describe as cis).

Both date AFAB people and both know their attraction to AFAB people is innate. Hopefully their girlfriends will help them make the thought-leap that currently they are either unable or unwilling to do.

I actually felt pretty uncomfortable at the way LM was treated. LM is young and vulnerable (and also a bit of a dick). I hope LM grows out of the dickishness, in time.

Just because LM is a bit of an arsehole doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to define their own sexual boundaries and "exclude" anyone they don't feel like shagging. Sex is an opt-in activity, nobody should be being pressured into shagging people they don't want to.

LM also seems like a rather weak personality so will no doubt be chewed up and spit out by the more aggressively unpleasant members of their own "movement" once they're no longer useful to the people actually running the show.

I also note that it seems to all be about sex, not long term relationships where the ability to have children might well be very relevant to the long term relationship.

No where does reproduction feature.

I find that particularly telling as a youth movement, as it only tends to be later that the importance of the likihood of having children plays a significant part in any relationship. Unless you are matched with someone who has the same expectations and desires then it can become problematic.

Also again, the burden of reproducing children - which falls to women - then becomes a something that women have to somehow 'sort out' after the fact, rather than being something that you think of as part of the process of dating. Its a secondary thought tacked on, afterwards rather than a consideration of dating. It immediately reduces women by this very nature, to ultimately be commodities to be used for the production of children.

Its quite striking how biology is seen as irrelevant - until its very relevant.

That LM exchange has made me really sad, because it really shows how very desperate LM is for affirmation.

Yes that was my thought too. It really displayed how much Lily was led, and how Lily repeats stuff said by other people rather than sticking to what their initial feeling was.

Lily is very much caught in the spiderweb of all this one way or another.

I dislike a lot of what Lily has said in past, but you read this and do think, is it Lily saying that or is it Lily just reguritating and repeating what others have said? The difference is important.

The moment Lily displays an original thought, Lily is put back into the box by the group think of the community and submits. THAT is what a cult looks like.

I want to scream at Lily, "NO YOU WERE RIGHT. YOUR INSTINCT WAS RIGHT".

Its very revealling and very depressing.

This is the last part of the conversation:

Lil Enby Cthuwu @CJOReilly3
That's not what she's saying though. She's saying the words they used to reject her were the problem. Not wanting to date a trans woman is fine, but rejecting them by saying "I'm not into dick" is being needlessly cruel and also assumes she has one. You can let people down gently

lily‏ @madigan_lily
‘But of course I knew the real reason’. Clearly, she is saying they didn’t want to date her because she is trans. And she follows that up by talking about the discrimination lesbian trans women face.

lily‏ @madigan_lily
‘One of them had the fucking nerve to say “I’m not into dick”’ - no one has to be into anything.

N-O-FrenchE-L ⚧ @lnc0
Think of it this way: saying "I'm not into dick" puts the onus of their repulsion on the trans indavidual, which if they're dysphoric is just mean

What if they said "Sorry I have a penis repulsion" which changes the onus to be on themselves, just a little kinder y'know?

lily‏ @madigan_lily
Sure, I think my autism might be in play.

N-O-FrenchE-L ⚧
Haha don't worry I know that feeling!

But hold on

I see where you're all coming from - we are women, many of us are mums, we are socialised / have had to learn to be nice / kind / compassionate etc

This person when they were younger and male was an MRA who enjoyed hassling race for life for "sexism" and comparing them to those who enforced segregation in the USA

This person took a role as "women's officer" despite only having "been" a woman for a short amount of time and prior to that demostrating a high level of male socialisation and entitlement and an antagonistic attitude towards "women only" stuff and claimed sexism against men ie they were an MRA

This person who is a women's officer has had very little interest in women's "stuff" while in post and has focussed entirely on trans

This person recently, on hearing the news that 4 women in prison had said they had been sexually assaulted by a trans inmate, said immediately that the 4 women must be lying transphobes

Obviously LM should have their own sexual boundaries.

But at no point has LM shown any compassion, empathy or understanding whatsoever for women.
So now we read that and say we feel sorry for them - and I get that - but for fuck's sake do you think that for even 1 second they would give that the other way around?

It is extremely interesting BTW that Riley and LM are both saying they have firm genital preferences - esp Riley who makes a living out of telling lesbians that they are bigotted if they don't take cock. When the shoes's on the other foot they aren't so fucking keen, are they.

So now we read that and say we feel sorry for them - and I get that - but for fuck's sake do you think that for even 1 second they would give that the other way around?

Are we obliged to recipicate the hostility we receive? God, humanity would have died out a long time ago if we'd taken that route.

I like being who I am, and being capable of empathy even if thats not returned. Its having a sense of human compassion - not necessarily being conditioned as female. Its something thats taught as part of religion everywhere.

I don't think I should ever have to justify a sense of empathy. Ever.

Do I think LM would dump all over me with barely a thought? Of course they would. I completely disagree with LMs worldview, choices, actions and articles, and j think they are no friend to women.

But I see in that exchange a vulnerable person, desperate for affirmation, desperate to be included in the cool group, quite clearly willing to submit their own sexuality to bullying voices so they can feel accepted.

Yes, it's precisely those impulses that have led them to be very unpleasant to women, but that doesn't stop me recognizing the weakest character being chomped down on by the machine and feeling compassion for them.

Yeah, I realise my sympathy for LM is likely constructed by a combo of female socialisation/ learned maternal instinct...

But whenever the do you have doubts/right side of history topics come up it’s my ability to see the vulnerability in people like LM and that remind me that I am not a bigot.

If the TRAs can’t do the same, it’s just further confirmation.

Are we obliged to recipicate the hostility we receive

I agree RedToothebursh and FloralBunting re empathy and compassion. Even if it is seen as a female trait (for whatever reason), it is something that most men need much more of, not something women should do less of to be more like men or even the score.

Cultish is exactly right re all this.

Re the dating, I think FB have it right re the law and expectations of who you are gong to meet (even if I hate the gender aspect of the question but we know they mean sex). If self-ID is allowed then that is different, but just because it has come in in some places due to fear of or misunderstanding of the EA, we shouldn't act as if all areas of the law will allow it. I don't think commercial law is anywhere near as tainted as civil law/ human rights law.

If transwomen are women and Lily and Riley are lesbians, then by their very own logic and beliefs there is no reason that they shouldnt be attracted to other transwomen, penis or no.

Things like this just show up the absolute absurdity of the entire thing.

Will backfire.

The other day I saw someone link to an article that showed that trans people are discriminated against in dating apps. Particularly by men (whudathunkit).

Yes, I saw that. Riley J Dennis gets to tell lesbians to accept his ladydick, but he himself doesn't want dick. At least everyone else is somewhat consistent in the sense that he is being called out about it.

"Again. Her sexual preference is not a problem. Her choice to state it aloud to a trans woman's face very much is a problem."

This is pretty crucial. If you aren't allowed to voice your preference, it becomes much easier for them to break you. Also note how they want people to lie and say something other than the real reason.

There appear to be trans dating sites, "for transgender singles and their admirers." Like gay and lesbian dating sites.

Surely that's the best option for everyone? Nobody's feelings will get hurt then.

Or are we back to validation again - insistence that straight heterosexuals have to be part of the dating pool too or we're all being mean?

Some people will be fine with trans apps. Others will not as they know a lot of people will exclude them and those are exactly the people they want to get.

Being trans undoubtedly shrinks your dating pool/makes you a specialist interest - but so do all sorts of other things (I’m extensively tattooed, for example - i’m niche interest ).

You can’t use your small pool as an excuse to take away the agency of other people. That’s just wrong.

Some people will be fine with trans apps. Others will not as they know a lot of people will exclude them and those are exactly the people they want to get.

It's hard to be sympathetic in that case. If a gay man persistently tried to date straight men and got rebuffed, I'd don't think he'd get much sympathy either.

Life sucks sometimes.

Being trans undoubtedly shrinks your dating pool/makes you a specialist interest

It's been mentioned before but could that be another long-term reason for encouraging teens to transition?

You can’t use your small pool as an excuse to take away the agency of other people. That’s just wrong.

It also reeks of deliberate victimhood.

"Wah wah nobody loves me, gonna go and eat worms, everyone's a transphobe!"

When actually you just might be a raging sexist narcissistic unpleasant person to be round. Or you have a big nose. Or you smell funny. Or ANY OTHER REASON that the other person has to not want to see you again, let alone have sex with. And yes, that includes genitals.

Amused by the Lily twitter thread! jesus.

I don't know how anyone can pretend people are attracted to "genders" especially when they claim that gender isn't about stereotypes and purely to do with internal feelings. How can I possibly want to shag someone based on their internal essence?

How many time has lily watched porn and thought, you know, I'm really enjoying her "internal essence of womanhood".

I'm still waiting for Owen JOnes to answer that question when he talks about "gay porn".

Also riley is deluded if they believe men see them as a "trap". Riley is 90% adam's apple.

"Also riley is deluded if they believe men see them as a "trap". Riley is 90% adam's apple."

Hahahahaha

To me it's his hair though. There is something haunting about it being on his face.

I feel quite sad reading that Lily thread. Lily is a dick, but easily influenced I think, and noone should feel shame for their sexual orientation. Now if only Lily would admit they are straight, rather than saying they are a lesbian..

No sympathy at all for Riley. Was obvious their video was about 'everyone should accept my dick and worship it' and that Riley would have no interest in shagging the lady be-penised as Riley knows they are male, for fucks sake.