Why do TRAs keep using black women when defending TWAW?

[ScienceIsTruth]

I saw this tweet the other day, and it never fails to shock me when they keep using this argument.

They've been asked not to, and been told why it's offensive, so why do they persist?

Do they honestly think it will endear others to their cause?

I really don't get how they even thought it made sense, or was relevant. To me it makes no sense at all as the 2 subjects have absolutely nothing in common.

They also don't seem to be worried about it alienating people.

It's a bit like saying seahorses are the same as black horses, when they're so obviously not.

I'm still waiting to hear an intelligent, logical TRA argument. But, because the entire undertaking is predicated on the lie that humans can change sex, none of the arguments make much sense. Trying to create false equivalencies with the black and intersex communities too for example is just the sound of the barrel being scraped as they try to justify what is and will always be a lie.

The wording of that tweet is painfully revealing about the writer's own racism. Misogyny and racism disguised as progressivism yet again.

It winds me up. These types of statements, and the fact that biological men are allowed to compete against biological women in sport, are the reasons I peaked.

It's such a false equivalence. Women are women, it does not matter if they are black or white.

thegerasites.wordpress.com/2018/08/03/that-jones-isnt-funny-anymore/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
That Jones Isn’t Funny Anymore

This article is about Owen Jones, the Labour Party, anti-Semitism and Jeremy Corbyn.

I don't agree with all of it, but the pattern is the same and its born of the same mindset;
"Hey, I can't be racist as I have a black friend" type shit. Except people are swallowing it whole without thinking because there is a rigid oppression scale that has no nuance and people forgot to use their brain cells.

The hypocrisy of it all is the thing that stinks of shit most of all.

You should criticise 'your own'. Its healthy. It stops problems from being ignored at their roots and becoming scandals.

RACE IS IN NO WAY RELATED TO SEX!
It is a different category entirely, and the analogy is so false it is borderline dehumanising.
This is how I explain it, using the example of nationality:
You can have Japanese people. We call them "cis-Japanese"
An English person who moves to Tokyo, loves sushi and "feels Japanese" is NOT ACTUALLY JAPANESE! But, in our analogy we would call them "trans-Japanese."

Within the category of "cis" Japanese people, you can sub-divide by things like occupation or sex. But you have to use an entirely different metric than nationality - i.e. things that have absolutely no bearing on whether someone is Japanese or not. It would be absurd to say that one's sex plays any role in whether someone is Japanese.

But you cannot sub-divide Japanese people into "cis" and "trans" Japanese, BECAUSE THE SECOND GROUP DOES NOT MEET THE INCLUSION CRITERIA FOR THE FIRST. "Trans-Japanese" people are, by definition, not Japanese!

I can't believe they are still using this argument.

Sorry for not replying sooner, I had to go out and didn't have my phone with me!

Thanks for all the interesting replies and explanations.

If all us 'wimmin' on here can see this, how do supposedly intelligent people elsewhere (and a minority on here) not see it?

How can they support others making racist statements?

You're definitely right though. They use it as their ace card; to stop all discussions in their track.

It's like something else I read recently, saying something along the lines of "objecting to a transwoman in a female space would be like feeling uncomfortable seeing a disabled or fat woman.

I think they were basically saying it was your internal prejudices at work because "all women are different", and you should work on yourself, and not single out a TW 'just' because their anatomy is different to women.

I just don't understand the mindset that thinks that's in any way acceptable, and it really makes me wonder about the kind of person that supports a movement that spouts this kind of bigotry.

Once you take the position that transitioning is not only possible but men who transition become a subset of women rather than an expression of male dominance it is essential to defend that position.
This is done by refusing to engage with those who dispute the original assertion with the TWAW mantra and arguing that these men are a subset of women.
If you are arguing about what transwomen are you have granted them the title woman. You have forfeited your strongest argument. They are men.

I have heard this a lot from TRAs. Has anyone literally ever said that black women are not real women? Ever? Because I sure as hell haven't heard anyone make that argument.

The aim is to suggest that white women are oppressors as far as minorities are concerned, I believe.

There is an extraordinary quote contained in the Stonewall report on Trans Access to Womens' Services.

(You remember the report. It was the one where the researchers phoned around 15 people that Stonewall had trained and asked them: "Are you transphobic or have you learnt nothing?)

From a "professional":

The category of woman has always been contested, and we have to be really careful around very short memories, around the fact that actually, at different points in time, that’s excluded woman of colour, that’s excluded working class woman.... (continues)",

Can someone enlighten me as to the time when women of colour and working class women were excluded from the female sex?

I know feminism has often been accused of being white-centric and ignoring concerns of WoC but there has NEVER been any suggestion that WoC are not part of the female sex. Such blatant lies.

Can someone enlighten me as to the time when women of colour and working class women were excluded from the female sex?

That was when the civilized white men wrote law that defined white women as sub human and the women and men of races other than white as animals.

As a Black woman, my transphobia (i.e. refusal to call someone with a penis a woman) is 'particularly sad' according to a gay white friend since I should be able to relate to the oppression transwomen face.

Mind you, this is the same friend I mentioned on another thread who instructed me to check my privilege when I travel as I'm lucky in that I'll never experience homophobia. Just the odd bit of racism and sexism but, you know, it's all part of the privilege.

Eastie77
Christ on a banjaxed bike!
Ditch that friend.

Once you take the position that transitioning is not only possible but men who transition become a subset of women rather than an expression of male dominance it is essential to defend that position.

Spot on, as usual, thebewilderness

and
'hey look at the squirrel!'

LOL

@Eastie77 I have had multiple people tell me I dare I be transphobic because apparently transwomen and black women are the same thing. We deal with the same oppression and by that fact should sympathize with each other. Dumb asses

Because they're telling us what they think of women and black women in particular.

That was when the civilized white men wrote law that defined white women as sub human and the women and men of races other than white as animals.

Sure, but the "female sex" was never in doubt, was it? Any exclusion was on the "human" part of the "adult human female" definition, and not sex-specific.

And going back a bit...

Should also say that women are socialised to JADE ( justify apologise defend and explain) so this also appeals to that.

Some seem to have overcome it. I dimly remember this from the time, but Douglas Murray brought it up an interview recently as an example of a better approach -

Being one of the old and past it frumps, I can call on multiple decades spent in cities with large diverse populations and multiple racial and other tensions. I never heard this, ever, until from white, straight, largely affluent male people started attempting to make it a 'thing' to justify their own actions.

If black women were truly women -- ???!!!

Gobsmacked. The sheer oblivious racism.

Being one of the old and past it frumps, I can call on multiple decades spent in cities with large diverse populations and multiple racial and other tensions. I never heard this, ever, until from white, straight, largely affluent male people started attempting to make it a 'thing' to justify their own actions.

This
I've even been unfortunate enough to spend time with racists and n'er a word questioning the womanhood of black women. This is whole new depth of racism.

It's co-opting the laudible ideas about intersectionality, now bastardised by our tra friends.

It was used to say things like, we are a subset of women IE gay women, black women, trans women, disabled women.

That was one use and from that came a claim that lots of feminists thought black women weren't women (when? Everywhere in the world? Or is this a thing about X time in the USA as per bloody usual cultural imperialists) and so they are in the same boat as trans women. It's historically and geographically just, stupid. And extremely racist and sexist.

'Cos they're racist fuckers?

But it's like the casual ageism, sexism, homophobia - whenever I hear this it mostly seems to be views based in a total lack of being able to respect anyone else, a lack of empthy with anyone else, and seeing other people largely as tools to meet personal needs. And naive appropriation of anything that looks or sounds useful in the moment to personal agenda, often without fully understanding it, like the throwing around of words like 'safeguarding' and 'inclusion'. As opposed to someone who is ordinarily socially and emotionally functional with most people but who has prejudiced views that are specific to one group.

woah, that Joan Rivers quote....

I don't think Darcus Howe attempted to shut someone down by obliquely implying they were racist again in a hurry

and yeah, that is the correct response to some stupid prick who tries to tell you that understanding that men are men regardless of what they wear or what cosmetic surgery they have makes you a racist

do me a favour