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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Stonewall report into domestic and violent services

67 replies

Bronners78 · 03/08/2018 00:33

I have just come across this report by Stonewall into supporting trans women in domestic and violent services.

I know this is often a concern of those on these boards regarding risks with trans service users, but the report confirms that service providers are taking reasonable steps to protect all concerned.

Well worth a read 😊

www.stonewall.org.uk/supporting-trans-women-domestic-and-sexual-violence-services

OP posts:
LangCleg · 03/08/2018 08:31

Extracts from an open letter published here: womansplaceuk.org/the-silencing-of-feminists-silences-survivors/

I’m writing as a feminist who has devoted over two decades of my life to ending violence against women (VAW). I’ve worked in frontline services in both domestic abuse and sexual violence services across the country and now I head up a VAW sector charity.

I love my job, I am so lucky. It often surprises people when I say this, as they expect this type of work to be depressing, but that’s not how I look at services like ours at all.

The VAW sector supports women as they try to move away from abusive and violent perpetrators, working with survivors to break the silence that abusive perpetrators impose on them. There is nothing to compare to the moments when these women get their voices back and break free – and that’s why I love my job.

Unfortunately, in recent months the changes to the Gender Recognition Act 2004 and the incredibly toxic debate around the issue of ‘gender self ID’ has left many more women under a heavy veil of silence, particularly for those of us who work in the VAW sector. The dark, uncomfortable irony of this silence is not lost on me, nor is it lost on the many women in the sector I have recently spoken to about this issue.

As someone who has worked with many survivors of violence over the last two decades, I am terrified – both professionally and personally – about the impact of self ID on ensuring safe spaces are available to women who have experienced and are escaping male violence. Even without the legal changes to the GRA, gender inclusive policies are already happening in many areas, these changes are ahead of the law and already upon us. Moreover they do not appear to be slowing down.

Organisations in the VAW sector can use the Equality Act 2010 for the protection of female-only spaces and I absolutely think we should. I’ve worked with so many female survivors of violence who have been left terrified of men, and who relied on female-only support to heal from the trauma they experienced. The sex-based nature of the crimes they’ve experienced necessitates this being women who share their histories, experiences, vulnerabilities and, yes, biologies. So it is right that VAW-service providers have a strong case to make for protections that enable them to employ and provide access to women on the basis of their sex.

However, to say this right now and to explain why self-ID is feared to be problematic for VAW services opens us up to attack and our ability to continue delivering services that we know change – and even save – female lives.

Over the course of many years, I’ve watched the public realm become increasingly toxic with accusations of transphobia, ‘literal violence’ and ‘questioning the right of trans people to exist’ as females – some, but not all of them feminists – asked questions about the potential impact of self-ID on VAW services and, more broadly, on female-only spaces. I’ve watched as trans activists and their supporters target funders, employers, meeting venues, and political parties in response to people asking for a broader public dialogue on the issue.

It’s been heart wrenching to watch feminist activists who have spent their professional careers fighting male violence being silenced by a rhetoric that insists we are the abusive ones, labelling us as TERFs (Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists).

Canada, where self-ID is already law, provides some interesting examples of this ‘debate’ (or lack of it), and shows that in some cases, trans activists and their supporters will stop at nothing to try to shut down female voices. The case of Nixon v Vancouver Rape Relief (VRR) was a legal action case involving a trans woman whose application to volunteer to work with rape victims was refused by a rape crisis service. The case was settled in favour of VRR’s legal right to use sex-based exemptions to exclude transwomen from working with their female clients in 2007.

However, VRR have been relentlessly targeted as transphobic for exercising both their legal right and professional judgement that female victims of sexual violence have the right to access female-only services. In 2013, a day of remembrance for the 14 women murdered in the 1989 L’Ecole Polytechnique Massacre was targeted by a trans activists protest. In 2018 and the trolling continues, a local sweet shop and its female owner were targeted and the owner doxed by trans activists after putting up a poster supporting a VRR fundraiser.

The threat to organisations who take on a stand on protecting female-only service provision is very real. Securing year on year funding for VAW services in the current climate is hard enough and I don’t want to risk our services. However, to say nothing is to be complicit in the silencing of debate and discussion on the implications of self-ID for VAW services.

This is why I recently attended a Woman’s Place UK meeting, where I made a plea to the women and men there to understand the growing fear in the VAW sector of speaking up on this issue. Even in a room sympathetic to my concerns, I felt a deep sense of fear as I shared my concerns, which I feel is a strong testament to the threatening environment facing women who dare to even ask questions about self-ID. I am delighted to say there was strong support in the room and a pledge that those who can do so without fear of consequence will speak up on the behalf of VAW services.

There urgently needs to be a public debate on gender self-ID and its implication for the protections offered to women as a biological sex class. Of course, to say this is to out oneself to the trans lobby as a TERF.

I’m writing this anonymously and I feel like a coward. I often wonder at what point I will be prepared to risk public attack on this issue.

Will it be when our services can no longer provide the support women need?

When I see too many of my friends and colleagues being equally afraid to speak out?

When a rape survivor has to refer to her male rapist as ‘she’ in court?

Right now, I only feel able to write this blog.

Millicent Fawcett said in 1920, “Courage calls to courage everywhere”. For those women who can speak up and speak out on behalf of the many VAW services across the country who currently feel silenced, please share this message, please speak for us, and for survivors of male violence.

Follow up to this here: womansplaceuk.org/an-open-letter-to-womens-aid-and-rape-crisis-england/

LangCleg · 03/08/2018 08:33

Happy to have a long thread about it.

As am I. Or even two threads. Or even three threads. I have plenty to say.

Ereshkigal · 03/08/2018 08:35

Thank you for posting that. I met the woman who wrote it at a WP event.

OrchidInTheSun · 03/08/2018 08:42

Thanks for posting that letter Lang. I have contributed to it as a survivor of sexual abuse.

I also have a friend who runs a shelter. She is terrified that a transwoman will rock up and demand to be housed. But she is even more terrified of speaking out about her fears because she knows she will lose funding. This is the situation we're in in 2018 - where the most vulnerable women in society are being further traumatised by an ideology that puts male bodied people at its centre

LangCleg · 03/08/2018 08:55

I know two women who help run a survivors group. The main reason they run on a shoestring and don't apply for any kind of government funding is because they know they will be pressured to go mixed sex.

heresyandwitchcraft · 03/08/2018 09:00

If Stonewall spent half the time and resources they do on trying to suppress women's voices and rights to autonomy over female spaces focused instead on creating trans shelters (perhaps under a broader LGBTQ+ umbrella), I think you'd find most of this board to be sympathetic to that aim.
But self-ID is a risk. Stop trying to pretend it isn't. It's also a little unreasonable to ask female shelters to take on extra work now just so they can accommodate males.
Start your own services, with special risk assessments, etc. The rest of the umbrella, including gay men, would thank you.

R0wantrees · 03/08/2018 09:51

THere is an important current situation in Canada regarding a woman's ability (inability) to have single sex space in a refuge.
Reported by the National Post 2/8/18
'Forced to share a room with transgender woman in Toronto shelter, sex abuse victim files human rights complaint: But when Hanna called the Human Rights Legal Support Centre, they said that she was the one engaged in discrimination for describing her new roommate as a 'man''

(extracts)
"A woman has filed a human rights complaint against a Toronto shelter for female recovering addicts, claiming staff forced her to share a small double room with a pre-operative male-to-female transgender person.

The formal complaint against the Jean Tweed Centre, which runs Palmerston House, followed Kristi Hanna’s efforts to inquire about her own legal rights in this unusual situation, only to be told by Ontario’s Human Rights Legal Support Centre that, by describing her new roommate as a “man,” Hanna was the one engaged in illegal discrimination.

Hanna, 37, is a former paramedic who has lately worked in the service industry, and has been struggling with the lingering effects of sexual abuse and resulting problems with addiction to alcohol and cocaine. She described herself as an “active ally in the LGBTQ community,” but said this conflict has left her feeling as if vulnerable women are unable to voice their own gender-based rights for fear of violating someone else’s.

“It’s affecting everyone in the house. This can completely ruin your recovery, let alone your safety, let alone your life,” Hanna said in an interview.

She spent two nights sharing the room — constantly looking over to make sure her roommate was still in bed, she said — before taking an indefinite leave from the shelter. Hanna had lived for seven months at the central Toronto facility, located in an old Victorian house, but since last week has been staying with friends on couches, as a “transient,” she said. “Those two nights were hell for me.”

In her formal complaint to the Human Rights Tribunal of Ontario, Hanna alleges the shelter “admitted a male bodied transgender into the safety of my home, bedroom and safe spaces.” She claims this has caused her stress, anxiety, rape flashbacks, symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder and sleep deprivation. (continues)

The dispute began in mid-July, when the transgender woman arrived and, according to Hanna, was acting odd and failed a sobriety test. Residents must be clean for a month before they are admitted. After some time in detox, the trans woman was admitted July 20 and assigned to Hanna’s bedroom, a double room with beds about five feet apart. (continues)

With the help of a family friend, she inquired about her own rights with the Human Rights Legal Support Centre, which provides guidance to potential human rights complainants.

Her friend, Peta Nankivell, described Hanna as “brash,” and said that in the phone call she was angry and under stress, and used male pronouns to emphasize her objections. That led the advisor to end the call, concerned that it was in fact Hanna who was violating human rights law by her words and behaviour — which could lead the roommate to file a complaint of her own, putting the Centre in a conflict of interest.

“What you’ve told me is potentially discriminatory and potentially a violation of the law, and that individual may file against you in the future, and our role is to keep those conflicts of interest in mind,” the advisor said. (continues)

nationalpost.com/news/canada/kristi-hanna-human-rights-complaint-transgender-woman-toronto-shelter#referrer

The article has a recording of discussion with the HR Legal Centre confirming their position

FloralBunting · 03/08/2018 09:57

I think it's the smuggery involved that really grates. Like they think they've made a killer point.

R0wantrees · 03/08/2018 10:02

If Stonewall spent half the time and resources they do on trying to suppress women's voices and rights to autonomy over female spaces focused instead on creating trans shelters (perhaps under a broader LGBTQ+ umbrella), I think you'd find most of this board to be sympathetic to that aim.

As well as there being a great deal of knowledge and experience potentially to assist!

Agastache · 03/08/2018 10:04

Happy to have a long thread about it.

Me too - can the OP add:

The Stonewall reports on
Trans men in domestic and violent services
Lesbians in domestic and violent services
Gay men in domestice and violent services

Please.

If not, why not.

And what is that telling you about Stonewall?

Knicknackpaddyflak · 03/08/2018 10:04

I put this on the PBPs thread before it was taken down. The statistics are freely available on how many women and children are seeking refuge, and 200 women and children being turned away through lack of spaces. It's also well known that 2 women and 2 children die per week at the hands of male partners and exes through domestic violence. Anyone know of statistics in the public domain on dv impact on the trans population and how many trans people are currently seeking refuge spaces? Are they in the majority transmen or transwomen or both? What percentage have children with them in need of shelter?

An obvious solution would be for some shelters to be centres registered to take trans people and others to be women specific, which is no different to mothers with children often having to travel hundreds of miles to a shelter with bed space for them and provides traumatised women with an at least theoretical choice. Or for the very wealthy trans community to do what women did from the first history of refuges, and fund and create purpose specific shelters that meet the needs of the users.

2 agendas here.

  1. What are the needs of trans people for protection and refuge beds from domestic violence? Where and how can those needs be properly met?

  2. The political position that a person is legally entitled to access all facilities of the 'gender' (meaning biological sex) they wish, irrespective of the impact on other users, and women only spaces are intentionally and purposefully targeted, harassed and colonised to remove all ability for women to separate themselves.

The two should not be conflated.

Mossandclover · 03/08/2018 10:04

Let’s just consider those stats for the moment and how to respond. 15 people are shown a potential risky situation, let’s say an aeroplane preparing for takeoff. 14 people look at the aeroplane and don’t see any problems with it. 1 person spots a critical safety flaw. Should we let the aeroplane take off full of passengers? After all 14 people didn’t spot the problem...

LangCleg · 03/08/2018 10:07

Where are the qualitative interviews with the service users in this report? What use is a service run by pomo-addled nitwits busy giving woke interviews to Stonewall rather than spending its time investigating what its service users actually need and want? What weight does a Stonewall report carry if it has no information about the needs of current service users?

UpstartCrow · 03/08/2018 10:07

How many service users did Stonewall ask?

Research by the Equality and Human Rights Commission showed that 95% of women using women’s services preferred to receive them from a women only-organisation.

www.equalityhumanrights.com/sites/default/files/research-report-86-the-impact-of-changes-in-commissioning-and-funding-on-women-only-services.pdf

heresyandwitchcraft · 03/08/2018 10:08

Exactly - or to paraphrase Peachyogurt:
If 14 people tell you the M&Ms are safe, but one person tells you they could be really poisonous, do you eat the M&Ms?

R0wantrees · 03/08/2018 10:22

Merseyside Police FOI response:

"In the 2017/18 financial year,
five Crimes have been identified
which relate to sexual offences
occurring in a unisex toilet or
changing facility.
These comprise:
4 X Voyeurism
1 X Rape Of Female"

Additional note: "The search returned 62 records which were then manually reviewed in more detail (including a read-through of witness statements) to try and determine whether or not the circumstances were relevant to this request. Some were still unclear as there was just a reference, for example, to the offence occurring “in the toilets” or “in the changing rooms”. These have not been counted. Even where a unisex facility has been counted, its relevance may be tenuous – for example, a changing cubicle in a clothes shop which is available for use by persons of either gender. It should also be understood that other relevant records may be held which were not captured by the keyword search method employed"

www.merseyside.police.uk/media/1508630/sexual-offences-in-unisex-toilets-dm2018-0475.pdf

heresyandwitchcraft · 03/08/2018 10:27

Merseyside Police FOI response

Shock Shock Shock

But I thought this never happens?
Also - is this only for Merseyside? If so, who knows what the nationwide statistics are?

Thanks R0wantrees truly eye-opening

LangCleg · 03/08/2018 10:32

There are 43 police forces in England and Wales. One of them has a reported rape and four voyeur offences in one year in unisex facilities. And this is bound to be an underestimate because they can't be arsed to correctly categorise crime patterns.

BlackeyedSusan · 03/08/2018 10:37

When running away from violence I was in complete utter fear that he was going to find me and kill me. I thought I was going to die. I would have been terrified of men (including those born male and no longer identified as such) being in DV shelters/offices

heresyandwitchcraft · 03/08/2018 10:39

I think it's something like only 1 in 6 sexual offenses even gets reported to the police. So I would think that the problem could be much deeper than this.

Agastache · 03/08/2018 10:43

There are 43 police forces in England and Wales. One of them has a reported rape and four voyeur offences in one year in unisex facilities. And this is bound to be an underestimate because they can't be arsed to correctly categorise crime patterns.

Plus 62 others that might be related, and countless others that were not categorised, plus countless others that were not even reported because - hey - the police aren't exactly bothered about women are they?

BlytheByName · 03/08/2018 10:43

I'm up to page 21 of the report so far.
I'm confused, the report seems to say very few trans women have so far been helped. Under 10?
Yet this thread mentions another source that reports that there have been incidents inside refuges of violence against women by trans women, the only mention of violence in the report is violence against a trans woman by a woman. How can we trust this report?

My gut tells me that badly funded refuges will be very reluctant to speak up about their concerns if money may be at risk, and I haven't finished the report yet, but the most obvious point that I see is that vulnerable women who are uncomfortable are re-educated. That doesn't sit well with me.

R0wantrees · 03/08/2018 10:46

Jess Bradley APRIL 21, 2015 BY ATH TEAM
On being a trans student, and why the NUS should have a full time trans officer:
(extract)
When I was 18 I started having sex with men for money. I started because, despite my having a part time job at the time, I found myself having to make the choice between eating and paying the bus fare to university. Like many trans students, I had a sometimes strained and sometimes non-existent relationship with my parents, and couldn’t ask them for help. At the time I was newly out as trans, and taking an engineering course at Bradford University. Nobody on my course would talk to me or want to work with me in group projects because I was trans. When they did, people asked me why I would do “a man’s subject like engineering if I wanted to be a woman”. Eventually, like too many trans students, I dropped out of my course.

This was a rough time for me. Fortunately for me, one of the sabbatical officers self-defined as trans and I came to them for support. We quickly became friends; if it wasn’t for them I’m not sure I would be alive today to be honest. I ended up switching over to a new course at Manchester University where I could get a bursary. I fast found a vibrant queer community there, but still struggled, almost failing and dropping out of this course after I was sexually assaulted on campus one too many times." (continues)

actionfortranshealth.org.uk/2015/04/21/on-being-a-trans-student-and-why-the-nus-should-have-a-full-time-trans-officer/

threads following discolsed NUS investigation into allegations against Trans Officer Jess Bradley :
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3320513-Jess-Bradley-first-transgender-student-officer-suspended-after-flashing-photos

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3321764-Jess-Bradley-suspended-Part-II

heresyandwitchcraft · 03/08/2018 10:57

Also - this report really reads as a concerted effort on the part of Stonewall to get rid of sex-based exemptions in the most delicate of circumstances! If I recall correctly, it was exactly the situation of a women's shelter saying no to trans women that is mentioned as an example of legitimate exclusion for proportionate aim in the EA 2010?

Female spaces/rights are not under threat? I do not trust Stonewall on women's issues AT ALL.

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