City of London Corporation consultation is out (this covers Hampstead Ponds)

[SwearyG]

And it's awful

No mention of sex, no mention of impact on any stakeholders, all leading questions, and horrible clear intention to filter.

This will affect the wonderful space at Hampstead Ponds so I urge you all to complete it. I will be speaking to the Corporation about its clear bias and lack of adherence to guidelines.

[R0wantrees]

link to current thread about Freemason's Diversity and Equality policy with reagards people who are transgender & women:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3323475-Surprise-The-Masons-now-welcome-Transwomen-but-not-women

[MsBeaujangles]

I am really shocked that Hampstead Heath retweeted a tweet that used the word TER* and gave advice on gaming the consultation.

[NothingOnTellyAgain]

Of course 😁

Sad thing is of course, this is what will happen.

[R0wantrees]

threads:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3309445-BBC-London-Tara-Hewitt-talking-about-Hampstead-Ladies-Pond

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3303939-Hampstead-Ponds-again

#Man Friday
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3261705-Turns-out-Hampstead-swimming-ponds-are-single-SEX-after-all

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3262380-Hampstead-Havoc-go-girls

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3160512-Engaging-trans-people-in-swimming-aka-penises-are-ok-in-the-ladys-changing-rooms-but-transmen-must-cover-their-breasts

December 2017
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3126114-Hampstead-Heath-Womens-Pond

[SwearyG]

Men! Do you enjoy wanking in bushes? We could have a brand new, exciting venue in London soon! Fill in this expression of interest form consultation today!



May I steal for twitter please?

[R0wantrees]

Sarah Ditum comment:

twitter.com/sarahditum/status/1024403918661537792

This is the account that is responsible for the Hampstead Heath swimming ponds.

[Wanderabout]

If the Freemasons can insist on surgery for females before they accept them as 'transmen'

Why isn't the guides doing the same for adult males before accepting them as female leaders?

[NothingOnTellyAgain]

Next tweet:

Men! Do you enjoy wanking in bushes? We could have a brand new, exciting venue in London soon! Fill in this expression of interest form consultation today!!

[SwearyG]

The official, City of London, Hampstead Heath twitter account has delightfully retweeted someone trying to stop feminists from having their voices heard in the consultation. They didn't call us feminists, but I'd get a strike and a deletion if I used the word they did.

Can anyone with a spare few minutes drop the City of London an email expressing their displeasure at this official account retweeting others asking to stop our voices being heard and calling us pretty revolting, sexist names.

[R0wantrees]

Agnes Perhaps these are specific questions for Stephen Whittle?

The obvious discrimination re transmen requiring reassignment surgery to join the Freemasons etc and the contradictions in transgender policies are exactly the sort of thing he has spent so much of his professional life on.

[AgnesBadenPowell]

The different way in which the masons and Girlguiding approach existing members who transition is very telling. It's also interesting that GG was pretty adamant that their policy of booting out girls who transition to non binary or transboys while admitting anyone who identifies as a girl, is the only way they could comply with the equality act. I would tentatively suggest that they are spouting bollocks. But if course, it's only girls who miss out with the GG policy, and who cares about them?

I will be sending the masons link to GG.

[R0wantrees]

Times article linked above:
(extract)
"The United Grand Lodge of England, founded in 1717, has issued guidance to its 200,000 members that “a Freemason who after initiation ceases to be a man does not cease to be a Freemason”.

Its “gender reassignment policy” says that anyone wishing to join must be male but once admitted can remain a member as a woman. Anyone who has become a man can also apply. "

It may be worth putting the Girl Guides in touch with the Freemasons as their policies are significantly different with regards the requirements on both joining and leaving/ not leaving following transition.

The Freemasons seems to have had some very senior expert legal advice:

(extract)
"The Times understands that a senior judge, who is a Freemason, was asked to look into the legal implications of gender reassignment before a possible relaxation of the law. As a single-sex association, lodges are exempt from sexual discrimination legislation on admissions criteria but discrimination against members is a different issue."

@AgnesBadenPowell


Girl Guide recent threads:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3314566-another-girlguiding-update

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3253884-girlguiding-an-update

May 2018 meeting at Speakers House:
OP therealposieparker wrote:
"A woman who is blocked from view, Phillip Bunce who is sometimes dressed as female, Maria Miller MP, Trans woman Bex or Aimee (they look the same to me) and a bloke. They are discussing trans inclusion and the girl guides."
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3250175-Girl-Guides-Panel-discussion-at-Speakers-house-woman-male-woman-male-male-male

[R0wantrees]

Extract from Daily Mail re female-born trans men:

"The organisation’s gender reassignment guidance - which was issued to the brotherhood on July 17 - also said that a woman who had become a man may become a member.

Women who have not undergone reassignment surgery will still be exempt from Freemason membership, however."

This is interesting & at odds with the postion of TRAs (including Stonewall, Edward Lord etc) when drafting policies for male-born trans women's access to women's services, spaces & organisations.

[TimeLady]

Also covered in The Times today

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/freemasons-to-admit-women-if-they-first-joined-as-men-n6mrqm6zl

Some conventions remain. Formal greetings should begin with the prefix “Brother”, so someone who has transitioned from John to Jane Smith would be “Brother Jane” or “Brother Smith”. Appropriate alternatives to the dress code, which could include a “smart dark skirt and top”, would be allowed.

Should look good with the apron.

[TimeLady]

The Daily Mail has picked up on part of the story

Freemasons break tradition as they allow women to join the brotherhood (but only if they were born male)

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6013141/Freemasons-break-tradition-allow-women-join-brotherhood-born-male.html

New guidance issued on 17 July apparently....but they will still have to be known as 'Brother'. Oooooh, the misgenderphobes won't like that.

The regular drip-feeding of these dafter stories in the MSM can only help raise awareness amongst the wider public.

[TransplantsArePlants]

Biology

Well that piece shows the up doesn't it?

[miri1985]

Won't be surprised if Lord quits aka is asked to leave soon. The masons like to fly under the radar and I doubt they will like all this negative attention

[SwearyG]

Needmoresleep I have written today asking about the weight they're giving different respondents as Edward Lord said on twitter that if people didn't agree that transpeople should be seen as the gender they choose we couldn't be seen to answer the rest of the questions fairly.

I also want to know how they intend the survey to not be brigaded - there is no need to register, no proof of address, no way to stop it being filled in from all over the shop with fake postcodes or qualifications.

It's a pile of shit. We know it, they know it. They won't actually do anything about it apart from "your comments are noted".

[Hygge]

"I'm sure you'll get along swimmingly, what with both working from within."

That getting along swimmingly would have to take place in the woman's pool of course, not the men's pool.

[ReappearingWoman]

FFS. Now Sophie Walker is wading in on Twitter, hypocritically highlighting Lord's hypocrisy while she herself runs a political party that advocates the belief that women identify into their own oppression & the discrimination women face everyday is nothing to do with their sex. Hypocrite pot, meet hypocrite kettle. I'm sure you'll get along swimmingly, what with both working from within.

[BiologyIsReal]

Lord defending his membership of the freemasons today in the Daily Telegraph.

//www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/30/gender-equality-campaigner-defends-freemason-membership/

Squirm, wriggle, change from within, blah blah creep.

[Ereshkigal]

This is exactly it, AncientLights. You only have to look at any TRA post.

[AncientLights]

Men don't get much about how women view life, though. Some seem to think it amusing/harmless to whip their cocks out in public never thinking how threatened women might be, many have no idea of the measures we routinely take to try to remain safe. Then they 'transition' taking those exact same ideas along into their new persona. We've seen it on here many a time. And then they wonder why they don't pass as women.

[Needmoresleep]

Another thought: won't holding the survey over the summer mean that parents of pupils at the single sex schools in the City be effectively disenfranchised?

I have written to the Corporation asking that the survey gets reviewed by a professional to minimise bias, that it is properly advertised, including to key stakeholder/user groups including schools and at the facilities themselves, and that they get their terminology right re sex and gender. I suggest that otherwise legitimate views of a number of women, who cherish single sex facilities, could be lost, with the Corporation running the risk of appearing misogynst.

No reply yet.

Serious though. I live in central London and enjoy swimming outdoors. I stopped using indoor public pools when staff at one Westminster pool were unwilling/unable to tell a group of womnen wearing burkas that it was inapproppriate for them to take adolescent boys (aged about 12/13) into a communal womens changing room. The women themselves justified their actions by saying that "the English had no shame. They knew as they watched East Enders". I would be equally uncomfortable, perhaps more, if a biological man used the same changing room. When I assume that again the blame would be laid at me for being transphobic.

Swimming is a huge sport/physical activity for central London schools. There are already problems getting girls from some backgrounds to take part. The idea that the Corporation/Masonic boys don't get this is shocking, especially given recent efforts to increase the residential population of the City. They need to start mixing outside their own small circles and start speaking to those who will be impacted by their decisions.

[SwearyG]

Oh would you look at this . In spite of being a Freemason since 1994 Edward Lord defends his membership and says he’s going to effect change from within.

I call bullshit. And isn’t it funny that his attempts to “change from within” are going full steam ahead at the City of London Corporation where it won’t negatively affect him. But in the masons? Whoops, no change. In spite of 25 years of alleged attempt.

Why is it so much easier for him to remove women’s rights than to share some of his privilege? It’s a mystery.