Shon Faye admits that transwomen need us to lie

[bd67th]

In the human shields thread, someone linked to a Kathleen Stock Twitter thread. Further down the thread was a link to an article quoting Shon Faye: "Fundamentally what someone is saying when they misgender you is that everything you've worked so hard to assert about yourself against all odds people lose families over this, people risk violence is, 'I have the power always to take that away and to say that you are not what you say you are,' and that there is some essence that you can never run away from...it's inherently a very psychologically dominant act."

This is evidence from a transwoman's mouth, that transwomen are indeed, as others have suggested, heavily if not completely dependent on others lying for their sense of self-worth.

I would counter Faye by saying that forcing everyone around you to lie about your biology by missexing you is a very psychologically dominant act.

Good spot

And I agree - and it's one reason why we should not be coerced into submission in this power play

Yes I was going to mention the bonus Shon Faye quotes but I thought I'd already taken up too much space on that thread!

I totally agree. Forcing people to repeat a lie is much more psychologically dominant:

www.openculture.com/2017/01/hannah-arendt-explains-how-propaganda-uses-lies-to-erode-all-truth-morality.html

I agree, and I prefer the term missexing to misgendering. If TRAs were really interested in promoting acceptance of variants on a gender spectrum, they’d be happy to insist on all sorts of masculine-feminine maleness. Their methods of insisting they are women just proves they are not. If they really were women, they’d fight our fights - women-only spaces being one (AWS, employment rights being but others). If they really were women, they’d be fighting for preservation of those spaces without insisting on occupying them themselves.

Well, sorry, but my parents didn't bring me up to be a liar, and I'm especially resistant to the idea of telling lies that harm women and girls as a group.

The truth SHOULD be dominant, irrespective of who tells it.

So revealing that this is, for Faye, a battle of who wins dominance, not a matter of what is the truth. For Faye, this is resolved only when one group of people successfully dominates another.
What the truth is is of insignificance to Faye, it is about who gets to force submission from others.

...and writing all that (and this) without using the pronouns that accurately reflect Faye's sex was awkward and frustrating and tells me that MNHQ have granted Faye dominance in this forum at least.

I believe, wholeheartedly, that if people were not censored in using 'he' for male people that the truth would be so much more apparent and shocking to people.

Very revealing.

The truth will out

Thanks for this, it really does seem to confirm many suspicions I have about the nature of trans activism. It strikes me as incredibly unrealistic to ask the rest of the world to conform with one's own beliefs - completely akin to religious or political compulsion. If your claim of being something rests only on "because I say so," then you must know that even a child would challenge you on the emptiness of your argument.
It's like Faye would read the "Emperor's New Clothes" as the story of a young boy "violently mis-robing" that poor "trans-suited" monarch...

You have to question the mental state of someone who needs constant affirming of their own identity, so fragile that a simple pronoun could collapse their house of cards.
They are trying to convince themselves, not us.

You have to question the mental state of someone who needs constant affirming of their own identity, so fragile that a simple pronoun could collapse their house of cards.

Then presumably you will use "she" when referring to trans women since not doing so would suggest you are so fragile to get hung up on a pronoun?

That doesn't make any sense, snappity.

It's the AGP fetish to want to be a women...the validation they receive makes it real for them. They particularly want validation from lesbians as they like to see themselves as hot lesbians, as in the porn they watch, hence the sexualised images we see.

Gender dysphoria is more about not wanting to be a man than wanting to be a woman. The fetishists who proudly talk about their lady dicks, don't have dysphoria.

I am quite happy to call anyone whatever they like, to have people wear whatever clothes they like. That’s superficial and meaningless to me. But I won’t let a man call himself a woman.

I think this is my biggest problem with it all. That a sexual fetish is being enshrined in law, or about to be.

There is absolutely no reason for changes to the GRA, the way it works is exactly the way it was intended to work. Humans are mostly accomodating souls, as long as we were all rubbing along together, only idiots were name calling, to both women and trans women, then life was as it should be. As it should be for women's hard fought for rights, for the rights of those with dysphoria to be happier as their chosen gender, to dress and appear as women and not to be discriminated against openly.

Nothing wrong with any of that until the AGP activists start demanding everyone kowtow to their fetish. So they can get their rocks off on women having to do as we were told, pushing back our hard won rights, and those of trans women who were happy with the rights they had also fought for. Its a fucking sexual fetish, it is not a dysphoria, it is allowing fetishists access to vulnerable women, it is some incel wanking into his sock watching women have to call men 'she' and 'her'. It is misogynistic men downing their whisky in their gentlemen's clubs, guffawing at 'those silly women getting a taste of their own medicine'.

And if we don't fight back, and maybe even if we do, women will be back to square one. We will be 'cis' women, and those fetishists will be the ones allowed to call themselves actual real women. Do you know what though, they are fucking welcome to it. Except they only want to be women in name only, not everything that goes along with it. Not scrubbing dirty toilets, not being grabbed and leered at on public transport, not your period suddenly appearing while you are on public transport during the summer and when you stand up everyone on the bus knows, not having to choose between getting an expensive cab or an uber at the end of the month, keeping yourself safe or saving a bit of money? Not being at work and answering the phone and being told to 'fuck off you slag', not being patronised by some twat on the phone at work, spellng every word because you are just some silly girl on the end of the phone. Except I am a mature woman who can spell Kings Road just fine thank you. They can have all that with my pleasure, except that is exactly what they don't want, they just want our name and our spaces.

Sorry for the rant, not feeling too clever today, it is too hot already. And because I have to work, because I can't sit about on my arse all day preening myself and applying more make-up than a Vegas showgirl, because I have to work to earn money to keep a family going, to keep a roof over our heads, I have to go and sit at work feeling like shit, my chest hurts already from the struggle to breathe and it is not even 8.00 o'clock. So fuck you activists, enjoy your day preening and gossiping and tweeting about how you are going to make women suffer.

'not being grabbed and leered at on public transport'

Except Paris Lees loves that bit and thinks we should too or we are pearl-clutching prudes.

No Snappity, I would respect a individual transexual and call them by name, but not a chance in hell I would play along with with someone's delusion that they have actually changed sex or allow a male with a sexual fetish or mental illness to demand I call them woman she.

The very fact that they so desperately need constant affirmation tells everyone that they know damn well they can't change sex or they wouldn't need everyone else to play along.

a battle of who wins dominance, not a matter of what is the truth

Nailed it.

Then presumably you will use "she" when referring to trans women since not doing so would suggest you are so fragile to get hung up on a pronoun?

Nice try, @Snappity. I get very annoyed when forced to lie because I am inherently an honest person and lying goes against my beliefs about how I should treat people honestly. This is not comparable to forcing everyone around me to lie and throwing my rattle out of my pram or assaulting them when they refuse or forget to. In fact, in terms of ethics, lying about a material fact (sex) and expecting everyone else to collude in the lie, reinforcing that expectation with threats of violence and shaming (e.g. calling someone transphobic) is the diametric opposite of how I treat people.

^You have to question the mental state of someone who needs constant affirming of their own identity, so fragile that a simple pronoun could collapse their house of cards.
They are trying to convince themselves, not us.^

This.

Then presumably you will use "she" when referring to trans women since not doing so would suggest you are so fragile to get hung up on a pronoun?

No, because as pointed out earlier, being forced to lie to put someone else's feelings first because they bully or emotionally blackmail you into it is being made to submit to a psychologically domineering act. It's abusive.

Then presumably you will use "she" when referring to trans women since not doing so would suggest you are so fragile to get hung up on a pronoun?

Are you seriously saying people should impact their mental health and actively lie in order to make linguistic leaps to please strangers?

#Thoushaltnotlie

That there is some essence you can never run away from

You can never run away from it because the 'essence' is your physiology.
It will always be there. Always.

When the synthetic hormones are no longer available and it will happen at some point. Priority will be given according to medical, pathological need.
Without the artificial pharmaceuticals the body will return to its former hormonal balance in the blink of an eye.
Human physiology strongly defends its biological state.
This is evident when stopping medication. For example, coming off cholesterol blocking drugs can result in a surge of cholesterol.
The flood gates open.
The body fights back.
This is the the 'essence' you can never run away from.

Then presumably you will use "she" when referring to trans women since not doing so would suggest you are so fragile to get hung up on a pronoun?

Not anymore no. Once I would have been polite enough to do that. But the safety and well-being of biological women and girls are my priority these days. Not the fragile egos of men. Fuck that.