To Ministers, the NHS, Girl Guides, Top Shop - 'What is a TransWoman?'

[bigwhitecat]

As we know, the reason so few people are outraged by the trans movement is because the issue appears so complex, and is fraught with sensitivities.

People don't understand what the fuss is about as it "affects so few people" or "transwomen suffer so much prejudice" that they deserve our sympathy and support.

People do not understand what 'transwomen' now means.

Trans activists argue that changes to the GRA won't make any difference because its "been this way for 10 years and it's all been fine . . "

What the public don't know is that 10 years ago 'transgender' largely referred to those suffering from Gender Dysphoria. Gender Dysphoria was described by the lead psychiatrist at Charing Cross Gender Identity Clinic as a 'vanishingly rare' condition. In 2011 this same expert stated that the rates of Gender Dysphoria were 'stable and unchanging'

It is no longer so.

I think the only way we can get people to sit up and listen is to force them to think about what we now mean by transwomen.

By the way, I know this is old news and that many have already tried this! I'm in awe of those women who have dedicated so much time and energy to highlighting the terrible unfairness of this ideology. However, often this question isn't posed by GC feminists on TV/ radio interviews, and it's so crucial to our argument. As soon as the public understands who exactly is included under the trans umbrella . . . game over.

Transgender people are not a homogenous group.

Let's present Stonewalls definitions to the ministers, the NHS, Girl Guides, Swim England and ask - in the interests of gatekeeping - who are we now calling a 'transwoman'. If it's all those groups under the Stonewall umbrella, then we are including those who very often don't identify as a women (either at all or part of the time), and derive sexual pleasure from cross dressing.

Is this Ok with them? If not, why not?

So far, this is the only question that made my NHS service sit up and listen. They admitted that we need to be clearer who we mean when we refer to trans people. No answer is forthcoming yet of course. . .

I rarely post, but am a regular (i.e. obsessive) lurker so want to say thanks to all of you who have educated and inspired me over recent months. The events of the past few days have been disheartening, but there are a growing number of us out there now. We're listening. We're trying to do our little bit. Thank you

Fantastic post. Looking forward to an answer.

Exactly this.

We are not unsympathetic to those suffering from dysphoria. It’s clear it is a real and debilitating illness.

But that sympathy is being exploited to give special circumstances exemptions to people who don’t actually need or deserve it, they just want it (and aren’t willing to take no for an answer).

That's why self id is so dangerous because it removes the gender dysphoria criteria.

I think it's also worth asking what are the benefits of grouping by gender.... the benefits of grouping by sex are clear.

As far as I can tell, there are 3 criteria to be a transwoman

1. Declared belief in male and female categories/ types of brain and the importance of categorising people by brain type
2. Declared belief in the personal possession of the female brain
3. Be Male

I cannot be a transwoman. Even if I believed in female brains and felt I had one.

I'm the wrong sex.

The term 'transwoman' is confusing and misleading.

To some people it means a woman who wants to be a man and for others its a man who has had a "sex change".

Instead of using the term transwoman or gender or any of those terms that need explaining, we need to have our own language.

I don't know what that term should be, but it has to encapsulate the concept of Men-Who-Claim-to-be-Women-But-Retain-Male-sexual-characteristics-and-function. (ie the majority)

We must use our own words. There must be a wordsmith, poet, writer, comedian, satirist etc within our ranks who can step up and help us name the man formerly known as transwoman (sic)?

The gra was a ridiculous law anyway which was snuck through without any proper consultant with women who are the people most affected
It's only not been an issue because the numbers were small and, largely, the trans women were polite and respectful
A great number have jumped on the bandwagon and seem to want to use it to put women firmly in their place. It's more like a MRA group now

We must use our own words. There must be a wordsmith, poet, writer, comedian, satirist etc within our ranks who can step up and help us name the man formerly known as transwoman (sic)?

We did have one, but MNHQ banned it.

I agree the term 'transwoman' is unhelpful, misleading and confusing.

But, at this point I think if we tried to introduce another word that more accurately described this group, we'd be adding a further level of complexity and yet another reason for people to opt out of the debate.

I think, sadly, we first have to work with what we have, otherwise we risk making it even more inaccessible for the public.

Yes, yes to bandwagon jumping / MRA. I do feel desperately for those with genuine Gender Dysphoria who are often so unwell, vulnerable, and lead such distressing and unhappy lives. This angers me a great deal.

This piece is useful to anyone trying to frame their points in writing to MPs, organisations, etc about this, because it explains in great detail how (and why) this term has widened:

drradfem.org/enforcing-mens-sexual-rights-in-international-human-rights-law/

There is a term that rhymes with Rim but it's banned on here for some reason - hurt feelings or some such hard evidence

"So far, this is the only question that made my NHS service sit up and listen. They admitted that we need to be clearer who we mean when we refer to trans people. No answer is forthcoming yet of course."

Which is troubling because most NHS Trusts' transgender policies have been written from the same guidance and make it very clear at the start of the document who transgender covers. They don't read it before they endorse it?

Internet search for Policy for supporting individuals who are transgender - Royal Cornwall and see page 4 from where I extracted the text below

1.2. Transgender (the term trans is the preferred term by transgender people) is an umbrella term used to cover numerous types of gender identity labels such as transsexual, transvestite, intersex, bi-gendered or non-gendered (see glossary for explanation). Their gender identity may not fit neatly into society’s idea of gender, for example they may feel they are not totally one gender or the

other, they may not identify with the assigned birth gender or they
may not identify with any gender at all. Gender is not just the physical body; we all have gender traits or behaviours. A gay man may have feminine features and mannerisms but that does not mean he wishes
to become a woman.

1.3. Some trans (transsexual) people who feel that they have been assigned to the wrong gender will choose to have gender reassignment (to change from one gender to the other). Some individuals may want to undergo gender reassignment but are

unable to because they cannot have hormone therapy, e.g. if the
person had liver or kidney damage or other health issues. Similarly, some individuals may feel they can cope with the physical body parts they have and opt not to have surgery, though this ability to cope may change in the future.

1.4. Transvestites are people who dress as the opposite gender and adopt their behaviours and characteristics for part of their lives; this does not necessarily mean they would wish to have a reassigned gender.

I thought of one term that may (or may not!) communicate our support for people with BDD (Body Dysmorphic Disorder)

Buddies. Geddit? Probably not.
But I'll tell you why I think we need a new word for people with BDD

Our collective voices include the people that have jumped through hoops with medical professionals to attain a GRC (and I don't mean exclusively 'feminising' plastic surgery on jaws, chests, ribcages and foreheads). We have some strong allies, with distinctive perspectives, from people with BDD. In legal-speak they are transexuals - a term that doesn't make sense and confuses the public even further. You can't change sex.

We challenge Mrs May's assertion that there is no need for BDD interventions and services. Oh yes there is. Plus, services for de-transitioners, say I.

We need to be able to distinguish, in the public's mind, that those who present with BDD are different from the cross-dressers, fetishists and groomers wanting to hide in plain sight. The sympathy for BDD is wide-spread in my experience.

The update of the GRC was supposed to lighten the load of people diagnosed with BDD, not to make space for performing feminine men. Maria Miller's Committee, and now the government, have gone beyond what was needed.

BDD means you're a buddy but you are definitely not a baddie or a mere body.

Ifonlyus - yes the policy for my Trust includes Stonewall's trans umbrella, but they don't seem to be able to join the dots.

It's most bizarre. These are people who spend a good part of their working lives thinking about / implementing safeguarding and risk policies.

The fear of 'getting it wrong' is palpable.

Stonewall have a very, very strong influence.

theOtherPamAyres I use male transitioner ...

The Trans Umbrella:

I met my MP recently to discuss the GRA consultation, and although I had limited time so couldn't raise nearly as many things as I'd have liked, one of the things that seemed to particularly get their attention was explaining that the original GRA was aimed specifically at transsexuals and that they were estimated as being around 5,000 in number at that time - but that the "transgender" umbrella was now being extended to an estimated half a million people, including not only transsexuals but people with no intention of undergoing any physical transition, cross-dressers etc., and therefore this was now a whole different scenario from what was originally envisaged.

I agree that this is worth bringing up in discussions, as it's very relevant both in terms of the scale of the issue, and the different groups involved, who may be very different to most people's idea of what transgender means.

Hi first post, don’t shoot me down. I’ve had a glass of wine!

I’m a trans woman. I just wanted to say I had no problem with the OP and sentiment of that post.

I’m not sure why transgender is such an umbrella term now. Believe me it’s confusing for me too!

The term ‘Transgender’ should cover those individuals of either gender who suffer from Gender Dysphoria.

It would be much less confusing for everyone and probably easier to have more civilised discussions about rights and safeguarding for women and trans women and trans men.

Thanks Tryingtolisten. We need more trans women like you speaking out and trying to challenge the ‘umbrella’.

I can only imagine how infuriating and upsetting it must be for those with gender dysphoria to see the term ‘trans’ be co-opted by, amongst others, aggressive, delusional misogynists.

Welcome, trying to listen. You will find some friendly voices here.

I am a transsexual who had GRS a long time ago and am fed up with the absurdities at the fringes of the trans umbrella.

We all have our own views, of course, and will disagree in some key areas obviously.But what is not in doubt is that the GRA in 2004 was created for 5000 transsexuals and 14 years later 4990 have registered and about 3000 birth certificates modified.

The word is throughout the law and yet the trans community (apart from the 5000 transsexuals) want to eradicate it. For some reason.

We transsexuals are not letting them.

Birth certificates are NOT changed to falsify reality as some think. Nobody changes biological sex - that is undeniable - but the original birth certificate is retained and linked to the amended copy. So realty stays.

The copy is just for use as proof of age when required.

However, the position now is that many thousands of others who are not transsexual and who have not got gender dysphoria and for whom this is more about lifestyle choice and expression want access to that birth certificate change.

To do so they have to get rid of assessment of dysphoria and involvement of a doctor to register the birth certificate change on medical grounds. This is where the 'simplification' of self ID in the GRA comes from.

It is a getaround the current rules for those who do not qualify. Not just making the bureaucracy easier because so few have applied as the government disingenuously claim.

Most people will have no problem with easing the costs and bureaucracy. But should have concerns over changing birth certificate rules.

The consequences for the definition of the word woman is the big deal here. Self ID shifts it forever from medically assigned by a doctor (at birth usually or subsequently if they believe there are sufficient grounds) to a belief self declared at any point in life by the person themselves.

Once you get your head round that change the consequences into perpetuity of altering the principle of the GRA to self ID are obvious.

By the way those Charing Cross figures for transsexualism are right. It has barely altered in numbers over the past 50 years. 200 - 300 cases per year or so occur in the UK This is why they were able to make such an accurate prediction in 2004 of how many GRAs would be issued. Something the government seems to be shoving under the rug saying the GRA is not working for those it was aimed at when it pretty obviously is.

So whilst the transsexual phenomenon (whatever causes it) has remained stable the wider transgender explosion going on now seems more volatile.

Would you not expect MPs to be asking why? What has changed?

@Tryingtolisten and @homefromthehills

Welcome.

I think many women are very sympathetic to transsexuals and we are just tired of the bull.

The proposed changes will hurt transsexuals so we need to work together.

I do wonder if there is any organisation that does work in a gender critical way with transsexuals and gender critical women?

Sorry @homefromthehills meant to say "'Birth certificates are NOT changed to falsify reality as some think. Nobody changes biological sex - that is undeniable - but the original birth certificate is retained and linked to the amended copy. So realty stays. '

That's really interesting and helpful.

No problem.

It can be a lonely opinion! (And it is only my opinion)

Am I a woman? No
Am I a man? No
Am I a trans woman? Yes

Is that the same as a natal woman? God, no, of course not. The further you transition the more overlap there is but formative experiences are unquestionably different.

Was being transgender a choice? No, I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy.

However, seeking help, getting diagnoses, having counselling and medically transitioning has pretty much saved my life and made me a much happier, productive person and I just want to live my life and blend in.

Again, just my opinion but the umbrella nature of the term now makes it much harder for trans women or trans men as we’re just lumped in with completely disparate groups, who happen to like wearing the opposite sexes’ clothes.

I don’t have a clothing dysphoria. Couldn’t care less about clothes.

Should trans women have access to the same services and safe guards as women? Probably mostly, but not high risk spaces such as rape crisis centres. If you still have male genitalia then you shouldn’t expect access to spaces where people have been abused by that genitalia. Have some sympathy and empathy for your sisters!

Anyway, I’m really rambling now, Prosecco doesn’t help, but going back to the point of the OP nor does the ever expanding transgender umbrella. It’s infuriating!

3. Be Male
I cannot be a transwoman. Even if I believed in female brains and felt I had one.
I'm the wrong sex.

Very true Barracker. I did think of "identifying as a transwoman" just to shut them up (and poke fun at the Oppression Olympics going on) - but it would not work, because... NOT MALE!

The word is throughout the law and yet the trans community (apart from the 5000 transsexuals) want to eradicate it. For some reason.
We transsexuals are not letting them.

home, I do think you have identified much of the problem correctly - the erasure of transsexual as a distinct category, and the parallel with the erasure of woman as a distinct category. A similar colonisation/erasure theme going on by the 'transgenders' - who come across as a hedonistic free-for-all, frankly.

Instead of using the term transwoman or gender or any of those terms that need explaining, we need to have our own language.

What we did use/invent years ago, in order to avoid using MTF (male to female, because we did not believe anyone could change sex, still don't!) was M2T (male to trans) because that is exactly what is happening.

Maybe it is time to dust that one off, and make it shiny again?