The boys have predators on their clothes, the girls have prey.

[dinodora]

sonshinemagazine.com/magazine/animals-aggression-and-entitlement

An interesting analysis of high st children's clothes.

My boy does love sharks buand he would say they're prey to humans - I must say I'd have struggled with many of the girls clothes these days as I'd have preferred the dinosaurs.

Regularish poster, I've nc.

@mogleflop

mustn't google

I hasn't made the predator connection, interesting article. When I was little I was obsessed with dinosaurs and found it baffling as an adult that they are considered a boy thing.

I was very insistent when pregnant with DD that she wouldn't be dressed head to toe in pink and frills much to everyone's horror when I knitted green and grey cardigans etc.
Shes nearly 2 and still wears lots of practical bright clothes and we avoid slogans but what I struggle with is that I think she looks 'cutest' in pastel and pinks and those seen as stereotypical girls clothes. I feel drawn to then when dressing her and if I'm completely honest I like it when she looks 'pretty'. This completely goes against my views as a feminist, I know it's related to social conditioning, I know it doesn't matter a jot as long as she is dressed practically but it's still there.
Not sure why I've typed all this, just musing out loud so to speak

I have really strict rules for myself when dressing DS and DD - for DS no blue, vehicles or predators, for DD no pink, flowers or hearts. I do this because it does make me think about the messages that are portrayed by their clothes, to each other and the world. It also means that I dont get The Rage quite so much at the clothes grandparents buy because it's just the odd thing that is overly gendered (2 year olds tshirt with fake handbag containing lipstick anyone?)
DD is nearly 4 and point blank refuses dresses or skirts, only likes underpants and shorts have to have pockets. My DM is convinced she's "going to be trans" (massive eyeroll) - I just think she's sensible and not been brainwashed by the limitations of gendered fashion

I'm sure I've read that autistic girls are more likely to want to transition than neurotypical girls. Thinking about it based on this article, a tiny facet of this could be the sensory issues around clothes.

Mogleflop the only 'trans' child I ever met was later dx autistic. It was very much the love of long hair and the whole Disney princess thing. He loved colour and swish.

Interestingly a friend's autistic child also went through a strictly ballroom loving phase around 4-5. Asked for a ball gown for Xmas. Had never watched tv till that prog; he didn't really follow the plots of most programmes.

Knowing about asd in a professional sense id day some children would be drawn to girls outdoors due to the sensory element.

Gruffalo, I do feel the same sometimes. I also had a pang of 'something' when I knew I was having a second boy - I do like some girls clothes probably due to colours and style, (and the sensory element, which I do think anyone gets if they wear a lovely dress or blouse etc. Men's clothes tend to be less flowy and sensoryish)

Girls clothes generally have more choice - about 2/3 of a shop will be for them, and 1/3 of a shop for boys clothes. (Partly because there are so many more bits and pieces for girls clothes than boys - skirts / dresses / shorts / trousers vs shorts / trousers. Ankle socks / long socks / thick tights / thin tights vs ankle socks)

One of the ways in which I have failed as a feminist is that, despite my attempts at fairly gender neutral clothing, DS is a very boy boy and will not countenance wearing even a slash of pink, and DD loves pink and would dress head to toe in pink sparkly stuff if I let her

I feel drawn to then when dressing her and if I'm completely honest I like it when she looks 'pretty'. This completely goes against my views as a feminist, I know it's related to social conditioning, I know it doesn't matter a jot as long as she is dressed practically but it's still there.

I think actually, it does matter a bit, despite being dressed practically.
I noticed early on that if dd was dressed "pretty" she was treated differently than if she was in boy clothes. Strangers commented on her appearance every time. Boys clothes people told what a good jumper she was or how much they liked her spiderman top and did the Spidey web hand at her. Girls also learn to look for those compliments and learn that their appearance is important. I think also as a parent you might be more likely to police how she is playing if she's wearing something you don't want her to spoil.

I've seen parents tell their daughters at the park not to play with certain toys so they don't get dirty and spoil their clothes.

www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/beauty-sick/201711/why-we-need-stop-telling-little-girls-how-pretty-they-are

One of the ways in which I have failed as a feminist is that, despite my attempts at fairly gender neutral clothing, DS is a very boy boy and will not countenance wearing even a slash of pink, and DD loves pink and would dress head to toe in pink sparkly stuff if I let her

Unless you live in an underground commune you can't hide the outside gendered world from your children though. My son has told me his 'secret' favourite colour is pink which actually makes me really sad.

Just look at the size difference, very average 10 year old DD went to get a t shirt + jacket from Tesco, in girls she needed an age 12-13 to be comfortable, in boys she could get away with 8-9 and still have plenty of room.

I don't think I explained myself well in that paragraph Vulva, I meant it matters not a jot whether she's dressed 'pretty' or not, she's still wonderful, funny, clever and strong but I still enjoy seeing her look cute and it's conflicting for me that I feel cute = pretty
But you're right, girls and boys are treated differently from such an early age and it really matters. This is something I find myself examining a lot; I understand how harmful it is for girls and women to be judged and treated based on their outward appearance, I rant about it to those who will listen yet if I'm completely and embarrassingly honest I enjoy seeing her dress in 'feminine' clothes.
I will add that feminine is often covered in muck, food and general grime of toddlerhood. So I try not to stop her playing because of the chance of spoiling clothes.

Girls clothes generally have more choice - about 2/3 of a shop will be for them, and 1/3 of a shop for boys clothes.

That alone is part of the message that girls and women have to be constantly worrying about their appearance and making sure that they look sexually attractive.

Just washed some new nightclothes of dd1 for first time. She got them from boy range m&s.

The bottoms have pockets! Deep, generous pockets! In pyjamas! Wtaf? I never realised such a glorious thing could exist! Meanwhile, on her girl section clothes, she has track bottoms with pretend drawstring (didn't realise when buying) and jeans with tiny pockets, some even pretend. It's fucking infuriating. Who adds a non functional drawstring to a pair of child joggers ffs?

One of my new, more feministy habits is to complement boys on what they are wearing, as well as girls.

Girls clothes generally have more choice - about 2/3 of a shop will be for them, and 1/3 of a shop for boys clothes.

Or you could say, "If you're female, you have far more choice in clothes than if you're male. But you must dress so as to present variety, and what you choose to wear will matter.

@sardines I don’t think real drawstrings are allowed on young children’s clothes due to strangulation risk

My primary age daughter has a blue (definitely “girl style”) strappy jumpsuit with Tigers on. It’s stunning. It’s only reasonably cheap from Debenhams.

Sardines I have ladies pyjamas with pockets. In fact most of mine have pockets. One pair is old from Boden, another pair Tesco and one from Debenhams. I don’t use the pockets though really as then they’d probably fall down due to the elasticated waistband.

Definately notice the predator thing. When ds (huge dinosaur fan) was about 2.5 he started playing very roughly & being quite aggressive & my DM suggested encouraging something other than dinosaurs so we got a load of bob the builder toys & the change in him was amazing! He still loves dinosaurs but it balanced him out a bit!

I've recently bought a couple of pairs of denim shorts from the boys section for dd9 as all the girls ones were soooo short!

Nice narrow cut, decent pockets & lower/mid thigh length - perfect.

Not just from the looks side of things but the trouble with the girls ones is they burn their backside & upper thighs going down slides with the short shorts.

Boys jeans often fit her better as well.

My 2 boys look lovely in pastel colours or white t-shirts so they were these a lot (I don't care if they get dirty etc!)

It’s perfectly possible not to buy any of this gendered crap for your children though. People throwing their hands up and sighing about the blue and grey and dinosaurs on boys T-shirts just need to look behind their local supermarket and...shudder...Next.

I have boys and girls and none has ever had an animal or slogan on their clothes, beyond possibly the odd teddy bear on a newborn babygrow.

It’s really not hard. I just ignore clothes like that and seek out tasteful colours and patterns (lots of stripes). Shop online, the world is your oyster.

*behind their local supermarket = beyond!

Never look behind a supermarket....

Noticed this too. Mountain Warehouse usually have a good sale on at this time of year and I stock up on t shirts for DD. The “boys’” t shirts had wolves, dinosaurs, sharks etc. The girls get unicorns, hearts, butterflies and everything associated with fantasy fluffiness.

I wanted to get her the one with the solar system on, but they were sold out in her size.

Heh Olennna's I often compliment boys and men on what they are wearing, a new styling on their facial hair, haircut etc.

They usually look bemused but cheerful about it

Magpiefeather -

They aren't little they're towards end primary school. Also, the boys clothes had real ones so the safety thing can't be it!

DH was gobsmacked when he realised! Not a thing that would happen in world male. It's not safety it's in the same bucket as fake / tiny pockets - with girls they seem to put them on the clothes for decoration but don't make them real to save money.. It's very weird! And incredibly annoying. How many men in the UK have to remember to check that the clothes they buy 1. aren't see-through in certain lights and b. that all functional features are real!

2up well sure - the people posting in feminism on MN are probably on it!

The messages that are put out by retailers, advertisers etc all seep through though.

If all the boys have blue tshirts with dangerous animals on and one boy with a feminist mum puts him in a yellow one with a non gendered animal (fish?) he still gets the message about boys / dangerous animals.

It's a society thing. It's about how we as a society view and treat boys and girls, what messages we give them about each other and their roles, it's gender - children being socilaised into masculinity / femininity.

GNC children know they are GNC as society is steeped in this stuff.

My dd wears boys clothes quite a lot. If I like it, I'll buy it. There was a little tracksuit in H&M a while ago and it said 'I will change the world' on it. Nothing in the girls section that said even similar. I bought it for her :)