13yr old dd believes men have it worse.

[Donthugmeimscared]

A few times lately dd I have been watching things with dd and the subject of domestic violence or rape etc comes up. We talk alot about everything and she's usually very open to talk about most subjects but when it comes to anything like this I get "but what about men" or "I feel sorry for men as they have it so much harder and no one cares or has places to help them". It seems she honestly believes that women have it easy these days and thinks feminism is stupid and man hating. It's like she can't even talk about anything to do with women without mentioning how hard men have it.

When I pointed out that they could create their own places to support each other she thought this was not fair as men sorted everything out for women to get help and we should do the same for them.

So I thought I'd ask all of you how I should talk to her about this. I'm not the best at explaining myself and you all seem so much more articulate and a lot smarter than me. Or should i just leave her to it in the hope she will one day change her views.

I really don't want to derail this thread but I don't think the percentage of violent men is very high at all, even if they do commit the majority of violent crimes. I do think that sadly the proportion of feminists who good disdain for men is a higher proportion (although likely this is because victims of male violence are over represented amongst feminists vs the general population)

You know the statistics regarding Dv and sexual assault for women, and that most women suffer sexual assault from a partner.

Now bearing in mind that a man might have multiple partners etc I still think it's unlikely that it's five blokes making the rounds.

Now. Take out the men "who don't hit women" but will smash the shit out of each other. Because men are still more likely to be randomly attacked on a night out and I think you can say that, yes, LOTs of men are violent.

Yes, they're definitely much more violent than us, but most I've encountered are not. I think male on male violence is a somewhat different and innate subject. The majority of male animals are territorial/display aggression and I think this is likely hardwired behaviour - not that it can't be consciously fought, but it's probably harder as a man to curb your temper when inebriated etc.

And obv the effects of testosterone have a huge effect. But this is a subject for another thread so apologies to the OP for derailing.

Resentful and bitter. Okay then.

Read this quote from a thread yesterday and tell me it's not resentful and bitter.

"As you grow older, you realise that no man is far far better than a shit or even mediocre one."

Because Martin Luther King was no better than Fred West, right?

It's stuff like the above that is likely pushing the OP's daughter away from feminism and I find it unacceptable tbh. It serves to undo the work of other non crazy feminists.

“As you grow older, you realise that no man is far far better than a shit or even mediocre one."

Because Martin Luther King was no better than Fred West, right?”

I think you may have misread that statement. The poster is saying that not having a man is better than having a shit or a mediocre one. Not that all men are either shit or mediocre.

Ah, I see what you mean, Bertrand. A poor choice of quote on my part then.

To be fair though, it was a pretty disgusting thread which would have been rightly condemned if it was reversed and was men referring to women as "cunts" (as the posters were talking about "low value penises").

@cocoflannel9, @hideandgo, medical errors in birth are inherently a feminist issue because they never hurt men, only women and babies.

Link to the thread?

My sister takes a similar position on many feminism issues. You can feel her bristle and say 'what about men' each. and. every. time.

It doesn't always changes with age. People HATE talking about DV. Not sure how age appropriate this podcast would be but me and my sister both listen to this one and it does lead to some interesting convo's. She pretty much agree on most issues raised. All women are feminists they just don't identify as feminists

It's also really funny - which helps to sugar coat the feminism pill.

guiltyfeminist.com/episodes/

That was a great example of cognitive bias.

You could remind her that Northern Irish women still have to travel to England to get abortions. And you could ask her who does the raping and the battering? Who hit her brothers? And is it really fair to blame a wife for not being able to prevent her violent husband's actions? Show her Cherey Austin's sexual assault timeline and Lisak and Miller's study about repeat raping by undetected rapists and how only 6% of men rape but most women alter their behaviour every day because of that 6%.

"That was a great example of cognitive bias."

Yes. And will probably be used in the future as an example of how feminists hate men, because others will read the quotation, not the explanation. It's so depressing.

I really don't want to derail this thread but I don't think the percentage of violent men is very high at all, even if they do commit the majority of violent crimes. I do think that sadly the proportion of feminists who good disdain for men is a higher proportion (although likely this is because victims of male violence are over represented amongst feminists vs the general population)

OMG we've finally solved the problem! It's just the one bloke committing all the male violence, his name is Dave, and he needs a stern talking to.

The majority of male animals are territorial/display aggression and I think this is likely hardwired behaviour - not that it can't be consciously fought, but it's probably harder as a man to curb your temper when inebriated etc

They manage to not fling poo at each other with almost 100% success. Or eat each other's nits. It's also an evopsych excuse for rape

"They manage to not fling poo at each other with almost 100% success. Or eat each other's nits. It's also an evopsych excuse for rape"
Yep. What she said.

That 6% figure for rapists is still pretty terrifying, I did some back of the envelope calculations and taking out under 15s that is some 1,597,021 men. Which might seem small compared to a general population of 65 million, but consider the UK (male) prison population is just shy of 80,000 in total and the cost of housing a prisoner is £40,000 per year per prisoner AND the cost of increasing prison places 1996% to accommodate them.

The sad truth is rape is practically legal in this country given that actually tackling the problem is impossible logistically at a state level. No government could ever have a coherent policy to eradicate it without bankrupting the country.

So the only hope has to be to tackle the problem culturally, and the ONLY show in town on that is feminism. Humanism places equal weight on rape victims and those victims of false accusations, which in my view massively obscures the bigger of the two problems which is rape itself.

Your daughter sounds awesome, but you can tell her an MRA man sees the problem and on this issue I have literally no choice but to align with feminists on this. The only way I can see resolving this legally is with the death penalty for rapists, which I’d oppose, but I tell you it’s an argument I’d struggle to win as the case for it could be mightily compelling.

In fact as much as I disagree with feminism a lot of the time I think if feminists really hated men, and I mean really hated us I’d come across more calling for the death penalty for rapists, and honestly I’ve not come across a single one who has advocated for it.

Feminists don't hate men anymore than the suffragettes hated children. But to portray them as women whose aims trump that of other people is a way to silence and discredit their voices. Was used then and it's used now.

Watch it closely and make sure she is not getting it from the net. Two girls I know started to say similar things about how bad was for men and how women also were violent against them.

I listened and gave my feminist take on it as others have advised.

I was amused at the beginning, then I realised they were getting all this from some groomer sites (they talked about women raping, a crime that in UK is committed by men, not so in the US, that's when the penny dropped).. Both girls are trans now. Brain washed on how bad women are towards men, and how they were always men but they didn't know until they came across the ideology on line. Now they are cultlike devotees.