Transgirl in friend's school

[mikado1]

I immediately thought of MN when I heard this story tonight! My friend works in a secondary school (Ireland) and they've had a student identify as trans. He had long hair, now wears it tied up and awards skirt. School v accepting and supportive, parents v demanding, almost looking for school to trip up. Use of girls' toilet was asked for and principal denied access point blank, said if he had a 12yo DD he wouldn't be happy (trans student 17). Unused toilet next to office was offered. Done.

I was impressed by his decisiveness and instinctive rationale, I was beginning to think only MN saw the light. He apparently said he knew he could be sued but took a stand and it was accepted.

I'm pretty sure that in Ireland women's spaces and services are still provided by sex, regardless of someones trans status. So I don't think he can be sued.
The third space sounds like the most sensible option.

I think he was thinking more of the particular parents in his case re legal action.. no one wants it whether theyd win or not!

That sounds very reassuring. I'd like to see a similar response from my DD's school should the issue come up. Reasonable alternative offered which gives the trans child privacy, dignity & safety without compromising other pupils' right to the same consideration.

That's interesting, Mikado. If only more people and organizations took a matter of fact approach like that.

I mean, what if the Girl Guides had said "Teenage boys? Sharing overnight accommodation with teenage girls? And we're not going to tell the parents? ... Are you on fucking glue, you utter fool?"

So much risk and heartache avoided.

Exactly.

I was afraid that the accommodation might have been given simply because we think of ourselves as accepting and inclusive and non-judgemental but fail then to reflect on what this means to others. Instead this principal, accommodating ad he was, immediately considered others' rights too, and ensured a tricky precedent wasn't set despite pressure. Majority of staff agreed 100℅

Conversely i know of a 7yo child, living as a girl, who does use the girls' toilet... Now what will happen there in 5y time..

From the official guidance

Can't zoom in..

Try now

They need to stop trumping the other protected characteristic with gender reassignment.

It basically says that trans kids needs are far more important than all the other kids, and that if other pupils and their families are uncomfortable with male bodies being in teenage girls changing rooms then go get educated you bigots.

Girls are being told they have no right to say no to males and if they don't like it tough shit.

Yes got it. Thanks amalfimamma

I think the 7yo who will have gone through primary as a girl may find that e third space a difficult distinction, having been seen accepted as a girl from year one..

But since 2015 , in Ireland, there's been no gauge of man or woman. I could wake up tomorrow and claim to be a unicorn and living on a rainbow and they'd have to accommodate for me.

That child is going to struggle even more when the girls start puberty.

Well done that HT. Girls and women are always being told to be nice, accepting and support boys and men. There's been reports about sexual harassment in schools - called 'peer on peer bullying' by a certain politician ffs.

in the official guidance referred to upthread it states that 'all students should feel safe and supported when accessing toilet and changing facilities'. Then it completely ignores the rights of girls to feel safe and supported

Has anybody asked disabled people how they feel about their facilities being relabelled ‘gender neutral’? Ffs.

I was going to say the same as lurkakus. And not just toilet but "changing facility". What if a disabled student needs the toilet whilst someone is in there getting changed? And then to go on "the trans student might not be happy with this in which case... Another option". Zero consideration of other people's needs.

there's no consideration at all in the trans ideology. Trans people are just as capable as being considerate as anyone else. A while ago my trans friend asked me what I would feel like if they walked into a toilet behind me, though not them but another trans person. I said I would be wary. Roll on a couple of months and she's declaring that she won't go into the women's toilets in case she upsets people. Luckily our town centre has a couple of coffee shops with single room toilets. (I'm sure I wasn't the only person asked this question).

There's no such consideration in the ideology. Instead girls are being taught (in schools no less) that they don't deserve any consideration.

So good on that HT

And yet again MN's ugly transphobic underbelly comes to the fore.

A school principal denies a transgirl the use of the women's toilets on the grounds that the 17 year old transgirl would be some kind of threat to a 12 year old girl. And this act of transphobia is celebrated on MN.

Does the transgirl have a criminal history of sexual abuse? Do the toilets not have doors on their cubicles?

Maybe if you cared about safeguarding you;d make an effort to understand it.

Sensible heatdteacher!

Getting changed in front of other teenage girls was bad enough (no cubicles or curtains in our school change). I can’t imagine having to do it in front of someone that we’d known was a boy.

Presumably the 17 year old is in 6th form so no compulsory PE - what would the head of done a year earlier?

I know some schools offer use of staff facilities as a compromise.

Agree that disabled spaces shouldn’t be co opted.

And this act of transphobia is celebrated on MN.

Alternatively a respectful solution was found which was best for all concerned, and the needs and feelings of women and girls were considered. Horrific!

And yet again MN's ugly transphobic underbelly comes to the fore.

Thank you for demonstrating how much trans rights conflict with the rights of women and girls, so that a solution that respects everyone’s right to privacy and dignity is deemed to be transphobic.

Its really helpful for some real life work I am doing, so thanks for helping with that.

Thank you for demonstrating how much trans rights conflict with the rights of women and girls, so that a solution that respects everyone’s right to privacy and dignity is deemed to be transphobic.

YY. Not sure if some posters realise how eye opening it is for others.

More please Sarah.

Please tell parents on this parenting website why safeguarding practices are 'transphobic'.

Thank you for demonstrating how much trans rights conflict with the rights of women and girls, so that a solution that respects everyone’s right to privacy and dignity is deemed to be transphobic.

YY