Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Ladies Against Feminism

74 replies

FloralBunting · 14/07/2018 20:39

A thread earlier in the day linked to a site called Ladies Against Feminism. I was glad I was going out into the sunshine for most of the day with my daughters, as the reminder of that site, and the ideology wrapped up around it, really upset me and distraction was necessary for a time.

I became involved with the ideology a little bit before I got married, around 20 years ago, and it coloured almost everything in my life for a decade of it. I was involved in email groups, blogging, churches that subscribed to the teachings. It affected everything - my marriage, my pregnancies, my parenting, my clothes, our lifestyle.

I actually broke free when the quiverful teachings impacted our lives to a degree that was beyond all reason. I was pregnant almost constantly for around seven years and the strain on my body was ridiculous. I had severe SPD and spent my days on morphine. My mental health was being crushed, and the drudgery was unending. I was homeschooling the kids, too.
My DP is not a bad guy at all, and he was really questioning the idea of no contraception and continued pursuance of pregnancy as an idea. He thought it was really unhealthy, to say the least, and wanted to get a vasectomy. I was horrendously conflicted - I believed that to deliberately frustrate my fertility was a grave sin, and to end all childbearing would be spiritually dangerous - after all, the Bible says 'a woman shall be saved through childbearing'.

Thankfully for me, the pincer movement of obeying your husband actually worked in my benefit, and he did have the op. I started to recover physically, and slowly began to address the whole movement and what it taught.

It had seemed so attractive to a woman from an abusive secular background, with a history of mental illness and a certain amount of chaos. Pretty, happy women, successfully running stable homes and families with many children. I thought it would be a way to protect any children I had from the kind of life I had experienced. There are books, tapes, a whole network.

You may well believe that coming out of it wasn't easy. My mental health dipped considerably as my support network, which had been entirely wrapped up in this movement, just fell away. It's taken me years to recover, and I'm getting there.

It was a real shock to see the website again today after so many years, and follow a couple of links to see familiar faces. I'm so grateful to be free, and profoundly aware of how easy it is to fall into these ideas without realising the consequences.

OP posts:
LassWiADelicateAir · 15/07/2018 12:41

I've been reading quite a bit of stuff on their website. What is disconcerting is that on issues such as objectification of women and sexualisation of children there are statements I agree with. Other stuff is just bonkers.

I don't mean any disrespect to the OP as this next comment is trivial and frivolous but the link below made me laugh (particularly as I'd love to swan around looking like Lady Agnew and I actually own costume jewellery copied from jewellery in Singer-Sargent portraits)

www.ladiesagainstfeminism.com/artman/publish/Femininity_amp_Modesty_16/How_Do_We_Want_Posterity_to_Remember_Us_108100108.shtml

TransExclusionaryMRA · 15/07/2018 12:53

This is why education is so important. I’m all for religions when practised in moderation, but some dogmas really do need to be taken out to the barn and put gently to sleep...

I think you might consider writing a biography on this floral your prose style is eminently readable and personable. You could probably do a lot of good with it.

Vickyyyy · 15/07/2018 13:33

Women Against Feminism

I had a look at some facebook page about that yesterday..and to be honest it scared me how much some of the stuff sounded like the sort of shite I would spout as little as 5 years back. Honestly, I was almost an MRA, in thoughts not actions. Then I had my daughter, and everything changed in an instant. Stuff that never really bothered me before was suddenly very important, I did start to see sexism rather than believing it was a thing of the past, I started getting really really angry at random men who are so entitled they will grope you on trains and stuff, where before I just wrote that off as dickheads being dickheads (not all men...type thing) rather than it being almost ingrained behaviour in a way. Looking back, I have no idea why I thought men were so persecuted by feminists. But I did think that. Having a child changed my outlook on life completely.

Some women will regret their decision to have a termination, Atlantea. That's not an argument against abortion but for counselling.

I sometimes regret my abortion. I was only 15 and it all seemed so scary. I got no counselling AT ALL. I was told when I first went in that nothing would happen until I got counselling..however the day i went in to take the pill, I was told the therapist was off sick and that if I didn't do it now it could be weeks before I got booked in again, which I do feel pressured me to do it as obviously I wanted stuff done as early as possible. There really does need to be more counselling involved in the whole thing. But no, its not an argument against abortion at all.

ErrolTheDragon · 15/07/2018 13:35

I guess, Lass, that you, me and everyone else on this thread would rather posterity remembered us for what we've done rather than how we look.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 15/07/2018 16:08

Flowers Vickyyyy

FloralBunting · 15/07/2018 17:21

Hi, quick whip in after work before I have to go out again (Sunday, day of rest, my arse). Lass, one of the things I found really difficult was extracting myself from the mindset and not just veering off the other side into a reactionary ditch. For a while I was tempted to just do the complete opposite of everything I had been taught.

But over time, I've managed to right the ship more, so that I am confident that the positions I hold to on things now are definitely what I agree with, not what the broader anti-feminists taught, but not the polar opposite either.

One of the things that really helped was lurking on places like FWR (which I've done for ages) because I actually learned that no, to be a feminist does not mean being pro-prostitution, pro-sexualized clothing etc. etc.

As so often is the case, it was necessary to assess what I thought and why I thought it, instead of just wholesale adopting a prefabricated set of ideas.

The abortion thing is interesting, because I genuinely hold to a pro life position now, but I don't adopt all the rhetorical tricks that so many in the movement do. So I'm not about to regale anyone with the story of my abortions and my regret over them. Because I don't disagree with abortion because I found one of them quite traumatic. As has already been said, that's an argument for education and support, not against abortion per se. I'm simply anti-killing, which means for me it's a philosophical question and a lot of the manipulative emotional stuff doesn't really come into it. But again, as I've made clear on other threads, I know this isn't a feminist position, so I'm not here to argue for it - I just use it to illustrate that some things, I still hold to, but I'm more confident that they are my own opinions now, rather than indoctrination. (One of the reasons I know this is because I readress my position all the time and often read pro choice articles because I am open to being convinced otherwise)

OP posts:
FloralBunting · 15/07/2018 21:47

Ok, I'm thinking I shall do an AMA, but I'm having a blank moment about what to call it... any suggestions?

OP posts:
IAmLurkacus · 15/07/2018 21:48

I used to live the Quiverfull lifestyle (like the Duggar family) AMA?

littlbrowndog · 15/07/2018 21:52

Flora be careful. U might not feel,better doing an AMA. It’s cool u here. But perhaps we safe space. Perhaps not so much out there. Just a thought for u

littlbrowndog · 15/07/2018 21:53

Oh feck I sa6 things badly sometimes. I don’t wan5 u t9 be hurt is wat I mean

Melanippe · 15/07/2018 22:08

Floral - brave post as others have said. The ideas around quiverfull are very attractive when life is tough, and I was heading into that kind of lifestyle as well at one point, and, like you I took a good step back to really think about what I believe. I am very comfortable in quite an evangelical church now, I don't agree with them on certain things such as abortion and that's just fine.

I agree with littlbrowndog though, look after yourself if you do decide to do an AMA, it would be a great shame to see people use that as an opportunity to bash people of faith.

LangCleg · 15/07/2018 22:24

Yes, be prepared, Floral, like Dog says. It can be brutal.

FloralBunting · 15/07/2018 22:25

Yes, you make good points. I don't think I'd start it tonight anyway - I'm brain fried after a day of intensely busy. I definitely don't want to create a space for people of faith to be ripped apart, but I should imagine there are still people getting pulled into this vortex, and I've been thinking all day about how I can possibly use the shite I've dealt with to make some kind of positive difference. I'm not an incompetent writer, so I'm definitely thinking of using that skill somehow. I'll carry on pondering for a bit.

OP posts:
littlbrowndog · 15/07/2018 22:31

Yeps floral. Take the time. No rush on this. Also I kinda tend to obbesive so perhaps just u know take a wee thingie break on it

So the stuff doesn’t get in ur brain

Being on this fwr has kinda brought up the stuff for me I don’t want to d9 the dwelling on soma: bein* careful with doing to muc(

littlbrowndog · 15/07/2018 22:31

Inchonerent

littlbrowndog · 15/07/2018 22:32

Feck

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 15/07/2018 22:35

littlbrowndog

Are you ok lovely?

Thanks
LangCleg · 15/07/2018 22:35

On a blog, you can turn off comments. Or you can just ignore any unpleasant ones. A thread populated by a lot of AIBU people is going to be robust and will be much harder to ignore questions you'd prefer to not to answer, you know?

I wouldn't want to put you off. You're a great writer who has clarity of expression and anyone who reads anything you have to say can see it's genuine, open and honest and you are a lovely person. It's also clear you have a lot to offer in illuminating all this. I would just say be sure that you could take potential inimical and intrusive questions without getting heartsore before you go for it.

LangCleg · 15/07/2018 22:36

Yes, Flowers for lovely Dog, too.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 15/07/2018 22:51

I love your posts, Dog. So short yet so insightful. Please don't think you're incoherent.

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 15/07/2018 22:53

Oi oi!!!

FloralBunting · 15/07/2018 22:54

Nope, dog, not incoherent at all. I'm always pleased to see a pithy lil post from you, and my eldest and I have taken to saying 'oi oi' quite a lot...

OP posts:
thebewilderness · 15/07/2018 22:56

littlbrowndog

Please be kind to yourself.

ErrolTheDragon · 15/07/2018 23:23

I've not looked at the AMA threads so I don't know if they're liable to turn nasty.

A possible alternative board which might be a place where women vulnerable to this way of thinking might see it but where faith issues can be aired more or less respectfully might be Philosophy/Religion ?

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread