Trans activsim's appropriation of intersex

[SunsetBeetch]

Saw this excellent thread on twitter today. Lots of interesting information.

So that's women, children, transexuals and intersex people getting trampled over by TRAs. Who will be next?

Ok well I must state it seems most likely from how you are describing yourself that you are in fact trans. Which is fine - there is nothing wrong with being yourself. If I am wrong, I have no other information to go on to understand the truth.

I have told you that I am intersex, please respect that. I have a trans partner.

I don't feel you've been especially respectful Snappity

Also there's increasing evidence of a genetic basis for gender dysphoria (which makes it an intersex condition). See for example www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-08655-x. This study found a correlation between RYR3 and trans men within an Han population.

Snappity you have (as Offred has clearly shown) misunderstood what the NHS are saying. The NHS in no way conflates the two in neither description, treatment or medication.

It is hard to discuss this with you when you find yourself unable (understandably some might say) to discuss your condition. You can keep flinging “BUT I AM THIS SO I KNOW MORE” around then refusing to discuss or naming yourself the authority because in fact you aren’t.
Can we ask at which age your DSD came to light or was diagnosed and if you have a formal diagnosis?

Snappity, there is ‘a genetic basis’ to everything most likely... What does that actually prove?

And I notice we’re back to citing an op ed from nature... 🙄

Snappity
You are rather clutching at straws here. 13 people in all.

This study also has some limitations. First, because the subjects were of Han Chinese origin, the results cannot be generalized to all populations. Second, the study was performed in only 9 FtMs and 4 MtFs. Therefore, similar studies using larger numbers of patients are necessary.

Please also note this is not the NHS saying gender dysphoria is an intersex condition, as is often claimed.

Disagree.

Please also note the existence of DSDs, or comorbidity with gender dysphoria, does not mean sex is not binary or that gender identity is biologically based.

Of course it does. Sexual attributes form a dimorphic distribution. Were sex truly binary, this would be a binary distribution. Sex, scientifically, is a spectrum.

OK, you're clearly in a vulnerable state, and I will no longer engage with you.

You are rather clutching at straws here. 13 people in all.

This study also has some limitations. First, because the subjects were of Han Chinese origin, the results cannot be generalized to all populations. Second, the study was performed in only 9 FtMs and 4 MtFs. Therefore, similar studies using larger numbers of patients are necessary.

Why are you getting hung-up on sample size? The quoted p-value for the enrichment in the trans men was 2.4E-10.

That they were Han makes this more interesting because few studies have been undertaken on Chinese populations. The real relevance of the study is finding genetic enrichment associated with gender dysphoria off chromosome 23 which suggests our knowledge of the genetic basis of sex is poor and that biological sex has components from multiple chromosomes

It is a shame snappity isn’t able to share whether they are intersex in the sense that the medical establishment understands it, or trans.

Because as we know, language is very important to TRAs and without clear language and definitions, nothing can be meaningfully discussed around this topic because no one really knows what anyone else means when they say words.

Also there's increasing evidence of a genetic basis for gender dysphoria (which makes it an intersex condition).

How does that make it an intersex condition?

OK, you're clearly in a vulnerable state, and I will no longer engage with you.

I didn't realise that Snappity was in a vulnerable state - I think this is a wise move.

Snappity - I will also no longer engage with you for that reason. Go Well.

Sexual attributes form a dimorphic distribution. Were sex truly binary, this would be a binary distribution. Sex, scientifically, is a spectrum.

I'm sorry but only if you take into account errors of biology. To be intersex is to have had something go wrong. Sex is binary.

And thank you for clarifying your partner is trans. It helps me empathise or at least understand somewhat the rigidity of your position.

I have previously requested that Snappity does not engage directly with me on this forum for similar reasons. I would like to reiterate that now. I do not believe engagement is helpful to either party. All the best and go well.

Intersectionality want to be left out if this debacle Snappity. It's not up to you to try to change their narrative and you're not informed enough anyway.

Intersex

That was a strange autocorrect...

Well I’ll add; ‘the nhs is wrong about medical conditions’ and ‘science is wrong about sex’ to ‘the EHR commission is wrong about the law’ and anything else I’m sure you’ve said about this stuff...

Lots of letters you will be writing...

Lots of superior knowledge you must have...

And yes Lang I’m going that way rapidly...

Snappity
Why are you getting hung-up on sample size? The quoted p-value for the enrichment in the trans men was 2.4E-10.
I'm not hung up. That's a direct quote from the paper. Quite rightly as small samples are inherently prone to dubious results.

So are we to assume that Snappity doesn't in fact have a medical diagnosis of intersex, from a chromosomal point of view, but instead identifies as intersex, as she considers "some of the biological aspects of sex are not aligned".

I wonder how intersex people (the diagnosed type) feel about having their experiences and diagnoses co-opted by people with straightforward XX or XY chromosomes.

It's a bit like a certain famous women's officer self-diagnosing themselves as disabled; it's confusing at best (because obviously we have sympathy with people who are struggling mentally or physically) and insulting at worst (if they appear to be claiming, without an actual diagnosis, to be more vulnerable that the vulnerable).

Oh, I missed half the thread.

I'm happy to join the group of "won't engage with Snappity any more"; however it appears to be irrelevant as I suspect that name won't be around much longer anyway [sigh]

I noted on Fairplays Twitter feed, re the minority survey being misrepresented by PM as an impact statement for the majority, that an intersex user commented about how the Intersex stats have been very skewed by its appropriation by the TRAs. They sounded very distressed

It is a shame snappity isn’t able to share whether they are intersex in the sense that the medical establishment understands it, or trans.

With the data leaks on MumsNet how many people share personal information?

I'm happy to join the group of "won't engage with Snappity any more"; however it appears to be irrelevant as I suspect that name won't be around much longer anyway

Why do you say that?

I'm sorry but only if you take into account errors of biology. To be intersex is to have had something go wrong. Sex is binary.

That's a very loaded view isn't it? That is saying that anyone whose biological sex isn't strictly binary is an "error".