The government knows that trans people have the rights they need already

[Pratchet]

There are no gaps. Transadvocate lawyer at a recent govt attended forum highlighted three areas of improvement
1 maternity- style leave for transition
2 legal protection against discrimination for 'non binary' people
3 more discrimination questionnaires

Just saying

Most interesting.

What discrimination do non binary people face?

Will other groups like punks and skateboarders get legal protection against discrimination?

I don't know. I cannot conceive. Maybe they think that people who don't want to talk to them because they fear being bored to death by narcissism are actually engaging in discriminatory behaviour.

maternity- style leave for transition
If they keep the medical diagnosis surely medically needed treatment will be covered as sick leave anyway?

What discrimination do non binary people face?

As written, the protected characteristic of gender reassignment in EA 2010 does not protect non-binary people so a change in the wording is needed

They are protected by the prohibition of discrimination of sex.

Almost everyone is non binary for gods sake.
It's like banging your head against a brick wall.
What's needed is for gender to just fuck off so we can all get on with being human beings with personalities.

As written, the protected characteristic of gender reassignment in EA 2010 does not protect non-binary people so a change in the wording is needed

And what protection do non- binary people need?

What discrimination are they facing which isn't covered by one or other or more of the protected characteristics?

1 Medical leave for transition : already covered under current legislation for surgical care, medical treatment and mental health.

2 Legal protection against discrimination of non-binary people: As far as I am aware, enbies don't face a lot of discrimination. I feel that the further societal deconstruction of gender roles and presentation will deal with this (I am aware that this deconstruction is an ideal).

3 More discrimination questionnaires: are these questionnaires qualitatively or quantitatively based? The more you look for a thing you will find it (see spiders at home). This is a potential rabbit hole/fractal. Some interesting data might appear but, with strong agendas on diametrically opposed sides it may be open to abuse.

I want people to be able to live and present a whole range of identities. I want appropriate and sensible safeguards for sexed and gendered spaces.

Struggling in the middle.

Struggling in the middle

Same here evil

They are protected by the prohibition of discrimination of sex.

Sex is only male or female so no other sex is protected.

Equally the protected characteristic of sex is only triggered when an individual has the purpose of changing sex from male to female or vv. So a change to any other sex would not be protected unless the court manages to read in something.

(Reminder, the protected characteristic of gender reassignment is based on changing sex, regardless of what gc people think, and this is outside the GRA).

You haven't answered the question- what discrimination do non binary people suffer ?

But one cannot change sex, Snappity, one can have sex reassignment surgery, which creates the facsimile of the opposite sex externally and some modicum of sexual function. One can adopt the gendered presentation of the other sex, one can change one’s name and pronouns and all these things to present as the opposite sex, but one cannot change sex.

Hence gender reassignment because gender is an external presentation which accords with societal constructions of masculine or feminine.

Hence the law as I understand it means people cannot be discriminated against for adopting feminine names, dress and attributes when having been born male.

The problem is that this is in conflict with protections afforded to women in some instances, particularly around same sex space.

But to the question of non-binary, I am confused by what this means. Intersex people should not be discriminated against, but surely this is a sex based protection. If non-binary means not conforming to masculine or feminine presentation and norms, then that would surely include people like me (single parent, working in masculine environment, does my own DIY, considering a buzz cut rather than continuing to dye my hair) except I have had three children, and been pregnant five times, so I am definitely female. And even if I had not had children, I would still be female.

So without being in any way facetious, what does non-binary actually mean?

Equally the protected characteristic of sex is only triggered when an individual has the purpose of changing sex from male to female or vv.

Don't you mean the protected characteristic of gender reassignment here? Everyone has the pc of sex.

So a change to any other sex would not be protected unless the court manages to read in something.

What other sex(es) are there, Snappity?

So without being in any way facetious, what does non-binary actually mean?

I'd also like an answer to this.

It seems to me that being non-binary for someone who is biologically female means getting your boobs cut off. Handily, for biological men identifying as NB, the patriarchy requires no surgical intervention.

Don't you mean the protected characteristic of gender reassignment here? Everyone has the pc of sex.

Sorry, yes. You are right

What other sex(es) are there, Snappity?

Equality law only covers male and female

It has struck me that, also being small of chest due to ill-fitting bra for too long as a teenager (unintentionally breast binding, from a parent who did not take me regularly to buy the right size), non-binary means I would be excluded from the category of woman for not being feminine enough.

I mean, non-binary is presented as a progressive active choice to step out of restrictive gender norms. But it could also function as a category of exclusion, couldn’t it? For people who don’t woman right.

The whole thing does not seem much different from Victorian women who sought education and access to the professions being decried as manly women, and Victorian men who liked finery being called effeminate or dandies.

But one cannot change sex, Snappity, one can have sex reassignment surgery, which creates the facsimile of the opposite sex externally and some modicum of sexual function. One can adopt the gendered presentation of the other sex, one can change one’s name and pronouns and all these things to present as the opposite sex, but one cannot change sex.

Read s7(1) of EA 2010, with emphasis added

A person has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment if the person is proposing to undergo, is undergoing or has undergone a process (or part of a process) for the purpose of reassigning the person's sex by changing physiological or other attributes of sex.

So not only can people change sex it tells us how it happens (which includes social changes). And yes, it conflates sex and gender but it uses the word sex to refer to the conflation.

I mean, non-binary is presented as a progressive active choice to step out of restrictive gender norms. But it could also function as a category of exclusion, couldn’t it? For people who don’t woman right.

That is the fear. It is why transsexuals fear X on passports and third spaces.. When they do not exist, there is no risk of getting shoved into those places for sex other than M or F but if they do exist it can feel like standing on a slippery slope trying to avoid getting pushed off

So not only can people change sex it tells us how it happens

No. They use the word "reassigning" for the whole transition but talk about "changing attributes of sex". Which isn't the same thing.

So without being in any way facetious, what does non-binary actually mean?

And what discrimination do non binary people suffer?

Snappity is avoiding both questions.

snapitty knows full well that sex is set in stone and unchangable. They seem to think that sheer will power, repetition of their lies and enough make up can change this.
It can't.
It never will.

Snappity... the EHR commission has said that your interpretation of the law is wrong...

It’s a bit embarrassing to continue to persist is believing you know better...

Snappity has already suggested discriminating against and excluding gender nonconforming women and butch lesbians from protected womens’ spaces in the other thread. Maybe they could start with that?