Can other people not see what is going on?

[Iseveryusernamealreadytaken]

I've been reading some of the comments on this thread about 'monosexuals' which is their new way of talking about lesbians (it ostensibly includes straight people and gay men too and its purpose is to class us as the dominant, privileged, accepted group as opposed to the 'queer community'.)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3300454-To-feel-sad-that-I-cant-support-LGBT-anymore?pg=4&order=

Apparently there are two types of lesbian, the kind with an inherent defect which affects their ability to have "normal, decent" relationships and the majority for which it is a moral failing which we can and should overcome.

I am so sick of this shit. I have lived through this already - harassment from guys to show me what I'm missing - or getting accused of being a bigoted man-hater because I won't have sex with them, a friend who went through conversion therapy and another who was exorcised before you get to all the general negative messages from society.

I thought at one point things were getting better for young lesbians but now it is just the same old crap in a different frock.

I can see it because I've lived through it before but can most straight people see what is happening and can young lesbians who have never known anything different?

That is dreadful.

Why are lesbians singled out like this?! I have defended women's and lesbian rights so often recently - mainly when debating trans rights. Just seems we are going backwards

Oh no. Another new term to read up on and understand. I would have thought a monosexual was someone who'd only done it once :(

Maybe this will be the straw that breaks the back of the silent alliance between gay men and the term 'queer' though?

Dunno about most straight people, but I'd guess nearly all of us who are interested in LGB rights can see what's going on.

Lesbians don't do dick. That's because they're lesbians. Doh.

TRA bollocks gives me the rage. Makes me want to march alongside the lesbians.

Why are lesbians singled out like this

Lesbians are not merely women, they're women who categorically don't want sex with men. I guess it was ever thus but now the misogynists have the stick of alleging transphobia to beat them with.

Several of these apply:
https://www.reddit.com/r/GenderCritical/comments/6kkeni/theerulesoffmisogyny/

It absolutely staggers me that such blatant abuse and harassment of lesbians is being totally ignored and dismissed by so many people. I can't understand it.

I'm straight and I'm appalled by it.

I'm starting to wonder how much this new resurgence is being driven by porn

What came first and which is the driver - misogyny or porn?

I’m not sure how useful my opinion is as a straight woman, but I agree completely with you OP.

It’s all different facets of the same attitude, which is that women are not allowed to say no to men. A no is seen as the start point of a negotiation, rather than an absolute boundary. When it comes to lesbians it’s like the ultimate rejection of men who think like that, and it triggers serious rage in them. The use of this new ‘woke’ ideology is just another stick to beat you (and women in general) into submission with.

You have the right to exclude all male bodied people as a class from your potential partner pool because a lesbian is a female homosexual.

I cannot believe that’s even up for discussion in 2018. It’s horrific.

Males have always tried to appropriate lesbianism and Sappho (Isle of Lesbos, what a great poet she was, why lesbians are called lesbians in the first place), like the story she cast herself into the sea for love of a chap:
"Still holding in that fearful leap By her loved lyre into the deep, And dying, quenched the fatal fire At once, of both her heart and lyre (Thomas Moore, Evenings in Greece, 1826)"
We have also had the very long-standing 'lesbians' in porn as a male fantasy (going back at least as far as Casanova!).

Re-writing gay and pride history by defacing the monument:
www.advocate.com/stonewall/2015/08/19/activists-vandalize-new-york-city-stonewall-monument-protest-whitewashing
and claiming it was transwomen who started it all, to transwomen burning Pride flags on campus cos they feel outed:
www.vice.com/en_uk/article/bnpwkm/this-is-why-a-transsexual-woman-burned-a-rainbow-pride-flag.

So, queer straight folks joining in and trying to claim we're just boring monosexuals is just more of the same.

Women saying NO to sex with males, as contentious as it ever was.

It angers me and troubles me that so many people appear to be unaware of the oppression of women that is on the rise again in the name of trans rights. Mumsnet is at least a place where people talk about it - out there in the real world I think the wider public are generally clueless.

The further this goes on, the more they will have to show their hand and reveal the agenda; and their hierarchical thinking, their homophobia and misogyny will become apparent to more people.

People generally want to be seen as nice and right thinking. And they will turn when they realise they have been lied to by extremists.

Term is completely redundant. We already have pansexual for people who don't feel physical attraction based on sex. There is no need to create a word dkr everyone else. What next? Cockosexuals to describe everyone who only likes partners with penises? Cuntosexual?

I've come out of lurking because after a couple of days of arguing for lesbians on my homeschool forums (don't laugh, we talk about all kinds of stuff) I'm tired, sad, and bloody angry. People are either stupid or malicious, and I'm erring on the side of malicious and lesbophobic. I don't know how lesbians are coping. I'm straight but mum to a lesbian dd, and a trans masc - butch lesbian for the 21st C apparently - lesbian dd, so I care. Mind you, I'd care anyway. I hate to see female loving women getting this shit. Comments ranged from TERF! through to transphobe through to liar. The more conservative women get it, and that's a trip, having conservative women explaining to so called progressives why it's problematic to erase lesbians....but the progressives are full on cult mind. Sorry, a bit of a rant for coming out of lurking. I think people don't want to get it, because then they have to square the circle of transactivism being homophobic, and they don't want to view themselves that way.

People are either stupid or malicious, and I'm erring on the side of malicious and lesbophobic.

Absolutely this

I don't know why I'm shocked. I think it's because I expect women will have each other's backs. But right now, progressive women are happy to sell lesbians down the river. It's gross. They should all have to watch Nanette till they get it.

I think what we have here is a lot of people who are very uncomfortable, but indeed want to be inclusive. And want to be for rights.

It confused me at first, for example sport, it didn’t occur to me that athletes could move from male to female competitions.

The only way I found out was it affected me directly in regards to sex segregatied space.

Also most think of trans as people who have gone through surgery and GRC. Which is a huge thing to do and should be respected.

It was a couple of gay friends who confided to me about. Their take was the activists (, not trans folk just quietly wanting to get on with their lives and be treated with respect. ) have highjacked it. And there is a lot of concern about how LGBT is really just turning into T. But no one dare say anything.

Most lesbians I know, stay pretty much below the radar. I only know one who went to pride.
Such a shame.

I don't know why I'm shocked. I think it's because I expect women will have each other's backs.

Me too, Contentious. All my life I've felt that women mostly do look out for each other. Like when I was a barmaid and used to police the ladies to keep abusive men away from their weeping partners.

And look at the hundreds of posts on the Relationships Board, where women reach out to other women and are heard.

Sisterhood is powerful and men fear it.

Mind you, it has been suggested to me that my rosy view of female solidarity may have been partly due to me not having any female siblings. I have DBs, both lovely, but I've always wished I had a sister.

Women saying NO to sex with males, as contentious as it ever was.

Yip.

And now, it seems, the het queers make better lesbians than lesbians do.

I think a lot of straight people can totally see whats going on-but don't know how best to help-it is a complete minefield. But the T doesn't belong under the LGB umbrella, imho. As if T get their way there will be no L or G. I'm so sad at what has happened to Stonewall, but sometimes these charities do turn into monsters-Kids Co etc. Bottom line is any woman should always have the right to say no to unwanted sexual advances.

I think what MsBeee said about women feeling uncomfortable but wanting to be inclusive is a good point. Women are pretty much socialised to put up with feeling uncomfortable. It won't be a new feeling for them. When I think of how long it took me to critically examine why I was uncomfortable with my partner watching porn I am astounded. I squashed my misgivings for so long because I was a cool girl etc. Also there is something about aligning oneself with power and the TRAs are powerful. They've a lot of media and political influences and a lot of them are men.

I've just been reading a Guardian article about how lesbians have better sex on account of mutual clitoris ownership meaning they know how to stimulate each other. Obviously the Guardian has to shoehorn a trans perspective into this otherwise a fairy dies, but did they give a voice to a clitoris owning trans man? Of course they didn't. In an article about clitorises the gender identity of the trans woman was deemed more important.

We can see the sexism so loud but I worry for future generations who won't have the language to describe their uncomfortable feelings.

It’s the same wolf in a different guise - possibly the emperors clothes.

What I just cannot understand is that many young women pushing this drivel (sharing petitions against Germaine Greer or whatever the latest thing is) are themselves lesbians.

Once hulking six foot transgirls push them out of their roller derby teams they'll start to understand, maybe.

It would seem there is (sort of) a similar thing going on with gay men but nowhere to the same extent and it doesn't seem to get the same traction as men are allowed to say no:

www.reddit.com/r/GenderCriticalGuys/comments/8v8swj/gay_male_cotton_celling/