Safeguarding girls and protecting women post Jimmy Saville & #metoo

[SpareRibFem]

I don't understand, there was a lot of hand wringing after the revelations about Jimmy Saville became widely accepted. #metoo there was more handwringing about the need to listen to women when they are telling you something that makes you uncomfortable.

Saville was allowed to get away with what he didn't because he created an aura of fear and people would afraid of the backlash if they spoke up. Those that did suffered.

We were promised something like that could never happen again...

And yet now despite many women and girls saying they feel afraid and uncomfortable sharing single sex spaces with someone with a penis weren't told we're bigoted and verbally abused for saying that. Our employers are contacted and told we're bigots, we're doxxed.

And organisations like girl guides are going still further in saying it must be kept a secret when girls are being forced to sleep and change with a male bodied teen with a penis (& teen levels of hormones) and I'm not even allowed to identify what sex that male bodied teen with a penis is on a public forum

Girl Guides are taking that approach despite the knowledge that abusers use secrecy and shame to their advantage.

Just like with Saville anyone who excesses concerns is shouted down and accused of being the person in the wrong by the powerful. There is a culture of fear now. Celebrity voices in particular (thinking people like Munroe Bergdorf, Stephen Fry and long list of others) are given more weight to shout down women's concerns. Male bodied people feelings are paramount despite almost all sexual abusers being male bodied (and most of the tiny tiny number of female bodied sexual abusers working with and being in thrall to a male bodied abuser)

Did we as a society learn nothing from Saville & the multitude of other abuse scandals that women and children/girls should be listened to, that celebrities voices help hide abusers, that telling girls to keep secrets from their parents about the presence of penises in their bedrooms and changing rooms and showing them they will be blamed and abused if they transgress and tell someone creates an environment where abuse can flourish.

Today's latest installment in how potential whistleblowers get nowhere:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48613132
Sex offence researcher 'was bullied' by Ministry of Justice

The Ministry of Justice (MoJ) knew a sex offender treatment programme increased the likelihood of reoffending, five years before it was scrapped, a tribunal has heard.

Research was given to officials in 2012 but the scheme was only ended in 2017.

and

Ms Hopkins, who is representing herself at the tribunal, claims officials "planned to minimise or reverse" the results and repeatedly refused requests to publish them under the Freedom of Information Act, because there were "vested interests" in the scheme's success.

"The negative research results had alarming legal ramifications for the MoJ," her legal papers say.

"If the SOTP was harmful, there was scope for victims of sexual abuse, whose perpetrators had taken the course, to sue for damages," adding that sex offenders could also have taken legal action.

Ms Hopkins raised concerns internally about the department's refusal to publish the results and eventually left the MoJ in September 2016.

She says the department's behaviour towards her resulted in the "destruction of her reputation" and caused her "severe and lasting psychological distress".

She is seeking compensation, damages for loss of income and costs.

Will be interesting to see how this one is resolved...

amp.theguardian.com/society/2019/jun/16/nhs-care-providers-left-autistic-children-at-risk-of-self-harm?__twitter_impression=true
NHS care providers left autistic children at risk of self-harm
Inquiry finds needs of highly troubled under-18s in Staffordshire were neglected

Potentially suicidal autistic children with mental health problems in Staffordshire have been left at risk of self-harm after receiving inadequate and unsafe care, according to a damning leaked internal NHS report.

An inquiry, sparked by parents’ serious concerns, found that the needs of highly troubled under-18s in the county were neglected as a result of significant failings in care provision by the two NHS-funded providers in the area.

And

The inquiry found that health professionals dealing with the young people did not carry out proper risk assessments, and did not record risky behaviour by them that showed they were in danger of harming themselves, even though under-18s with autism are at higher risk of trying to take their own life.

And

It also found that autistic youngsters who were experiencing a mental health crisis received poor support, despite that also raising their risk of self-harm or suicide.

The NTW experts concluded that: “We as a team did not feel that the current approach to risk assessment and management to be robust, co-ordinated or safe.”

They were so worried by what they found that as soon as their inspection ended last July, they wrote to the NHS bodies that brought them in urging them to order the two providers to take “immediate action” to tackle five areas of inadequate practice that, in their view, posed a risk of harm to young people, without waiting for its formal report to arrive.

The CCGs received the report last November, but have not published it. Families fear that the NHS is trying to suppress the “scandal” of autistic young people’s care. Despite the report making a raft of recommendations, little has changed, they claim.

And

The inquiry also found that either one or both providers were breaching a number of guidelines issued by NHS England, the Department of Health and National Institute for health and Care Excellence (NICE) to ensure or improve care for those with autism. For example, Midlands Psychology were diagnosing autism using an approach that did not have NICE’s backing “and nor is it effective in meeting the needs of young people with autism and clearly lacks a person-centred approach”.

I think this thread needs bumping today following the report on Child Abuse in Manchester:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-51093159
Manchester sex abuse: Exploited children 'were not protected'

There are lots of discussions going on about why it was allowed to happen. The article states:

This is not ancient history. These failures happened in 2004 and 2005.

The new Children Act had just been passed. The authorities were promising lessons had been learned about always putting children first.

But reading today's review, it is clear many lessons had not been learned.

So what went wrong? As the Mayor of Greater Manchester Andy Burnham put it, there was an institutional mindset in which young, vulnerable girls were not seen as the victims but as the problem.

They were children in our care. Children some of those in authority labelled as prostitutes and promiscuous. Children who it was said had chosen to be exploited.

And the perpetrators were all from an ethnic minority which the authorities recognised had itself been a victim of prejudice and racism.

However, demanding and difficult they may be, the welfare of children must always come first.

I don't think anyone here really thinks that things have improved much. If anything I think many believe that things are getting worse as people are failing to understand what safeguarding is.

We have a number of major charity involving children which have acted in a way which raise serious concerns about safeguarding, and we have several charities which are advising various private and public companies and services without any critical thought for the implications of safeguarding.

Everything thats been documented on this thread, and plenty else that has been elsewhere in this section, but widely slapped down elsewhere.

A short list off the top of my head, which has either been particularly appalling or has cropped up on my radar just this week.

We have regulartory capture in full force and talk of only allowing affirmation therapy in the UK, like in Canada and some States in the US, stating that anything that explores other issues such as a traumatic past is 'conversation therapy' against trans people (though affirmation only approaches might well constitute conversion therapy of gays and lesbians). Silencing exploration of past trauma by default also silences discussion of abuse.

We have had the whole saga with the NSPCC with various issues - including changes to their literature which suggests its only abuse if a child 'feels uncomfortable'.

We have the Charity Commission who did a report into Mesmac in 2018 www.gov.uk/government/publications/charity-case-report-yorkshire-mesmac, who are currently advertising group sessions for 14 to 25 year olds. Also see Aimee Challenor's Prism for this age group. Which seems extremely concerning given the history in both cases.

We have a member of Stonewall writing propaganda which encourages Emotional Incest where children are encouraged to support their trans-dad without question and have no emotions of her own.

We have a sudden unexplained explosion in girls being refered to the the Tavistock, who strangle have a reported instance of autism which is WAY above the natural incidence of autism in the general population.

We have children being put into homes which are privately run and not suitable for under 16s. We have children in other homes which are not fit for purpose and have been widely reported on for a number of years, yet no one is doing anything. This isn't being addressed despite it being stressed how serious this is. Part of this includes the criminalisation of children in care for doing things which would never be prosecuted in other situations.

This is all against a background where you could lose your job for expressing concerns or having a different view from the 'approved orthodox'. And where the police have been acting beyond the remit of their power by arresting individuals for 'thought crime'.

We have language and threats on social which is aggressive and sexist directed against people for daring to talk about any of this, complete with a dismissive attitude that those concerns are of a far right nature.

We have social workers openly saying that they have particular concerns which they do not feel they can express because of the abuse they recieve or the likihood that they will face disciplinary action.

Against this background its hard to look at today's report with any confidence and think that we aren't already in the midst of the next huge scandal which is in plain sight and everyone knows about but isn't doing anything about.

As Clymene states in this thread on grooming

Let me start by being absolutely clear - grooming when done by an adult to a child isn't always sexual.

In its simplest terms, it's a technique used by people to get other people (typically those who are more vulnerable) to do what the groomer wants. It's how older children/young adults are able to coerce younger children into drug running for them (county lines) and how older girls recruit younger ones into prostitution (as in Rotherham).

Within the family, grooming reasons can be more complex. Adults who are abusing another family member typically groom the rest of the family to accept the abuse (our secret, no one needs to know, mummy doesn't want anyone to know, etc). And grooming isn't just about abuse within the context of a family - it can be grooming children to accept that it's perfect okay that mum is so drunk she can't get off the sofa until lunchtime at the weekend.

It's also the basis of the FOG (fear obligation guilt) that many adults feel when dealing with toxic parents.

Why is this a feminist issue? Well aside from the fact that women and girls are more likely to be vulnerable, we are all Cassandras...

Let this thread stand and continue as testament to how no one is listening.

An excellent and timely revival on this thread Red.

It's frightening as ever when you see it all written down like that.

Would it be appropriate to reversion this catalogue of errors into letters to MPs or Cabinet Ministers?

If anything I think many believe that things are getting worse as people are failing to understand what safeguarding is.

This. We need a mass public education campaign. No sacred castes.

Remember that incident referred to in the Manchester Child Abuse scandal relates to 2004 - 2005.

Its taken 15 years for the authorities to go 'oh shit, we fucked up, how do we stop it again?' 15 years where nothing has been done about the culture in which that scandal brewed.

Saville died in 2011. Everything with him only broke when the culture of fear broke and uncovered abuse going back decades.

This is what happens when no one wants to see it and cultures of fear and intimidation are allowed to fester, because people in authority don't want to deal with it or have their own vested interests.

Am reminded of Michael Jackson and the court cases too and those poor boys being torn down by fans. There really is no limit to the protection these paedophiles receive, even after death.

The trouble is that for the inquiry to work out what went wrong (past tense) they have to admit what is currently going wrong (in the present) and that opens up huge areas of new liability and push back against authoritarian 'progressiveness' which vested interest groups won't want to do.

It just makes me think that the two outcome are either saving up an even bigger anti-progressive backlash (which will negatively impact women, ethnic minorities and homosexuals anyway - just in different ways) or we are in for an even bigger scandal which will blow the socks off the Manchester Abuse Scandal or the Jimmy Saville Scandal and completely dwarf them. If that particular scandal isn't already in full effect already. Or we get both of these outcomes.

Todays news certainly does not make me think 'finally they've made progress at getting justic here'. If anything it just makes me think its far too little, far too late and thing have just festered as a result of all the inaction.

It just makes me think that the two outcome are either saving up an even bigger anti-progressive backlash (which will negatively impact women, ethnic minorities and homosexuals anyway - just in different ways) or we are in for an even bigger scandal which will blow the socks off the Manchester Abuse Scandal or the Jimmy Saville Scandal and completely dwarf them. If that particular scandal isn't already in full effect already. Or we get both of these outcomes.

Yep. I don't know whether to hope for the former to avert the latter, frankly. One day, these fools will wish they had listened to feminists. Many babies will be going with this bathwater.

Thank you RTB. we are in for an even bigger scandal. I also believe that this is the case. And (as with all these previous scandals) women and children are still silenced, vilified and powerless in the face of a powerful institutionally captured establishment.

david aaronovitch @daaronovitch
The Manchester grooming report is a shocker. But the most important question is what we're doing now that we'll be inquiring into in 10 years time. Like 'county lines' exploitation. Me for @thetimes online now

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/we-still-turn-a-blind-eye-to-child-exploitation-5ddcs3vq9
We still turn a blind eye to child exploitation

While learning lessons from the historical abuse of girls in care, let’s not kid ourselves that things aren’t as bad today

Excellent summary of where we are at, red .there is so much to do and while people are still frightened ( rightly) to speak out, we have to look to those who can and do. The school toilets issue seems to be getting objections now and through this more people are becoming aware, but, where are the retired heads and teachers speaking out, and retired social workers and healthcare staff?

Placemarking

Thank you RedTB. Excellent summary. Hard to see how this is going to change.

This is such a complex issue so I will restrict this post to the subjects I am most familiar with, that is astroturfing and estryist infiltration of all campainging groups by sinister actors.

I was never abused by Savile but have met people who were and who gave credible accounts of being abused by him prior him being exposed in the MSM.

My heart goes out to anyone who was abused by Savile or any other predator.

I am also aware that the network of quack therapists who abused me and people I know and many others promote the idea that JS was a satanist.

I believe that JS was a prolific sexual abuser but I have seen no evidence that he was a satanist other than conspiracy theories connected to a network of quacks, evangelical christians and anti-abortion campaigners.

A long time associate of these dangerous quacks is a fundemantalist christian and anti-abortion campaigner called Wilfred Wong.

There is an interesting article on Wong here and his demented associates that includes the following text (emphasis mine):

"While a lobbyist, Wong had an office in the House of Commons for 16 years. He’s currently a director of CBR-UK, and is a former director of another anti-abortion group, the Society for the Protection of Unborn Children (SPUC). What he suggested – that sexual and reproductive rights progress is actually the result of Satanic machinations – was extreme.

But it wasn’t original. This is a well-worn conspiracy theory that claims Satanists, including those in powerful political positions, ritually abuse adults and children to increase the devil’s power and impose an anti-Christian agenda on society. Wong said UK abortion rates are linked to high-profile Satanists who aim to “undermine and transform society”.

He accused former prime minister Edward Heath of being involved in ritual Satanic abuse, and prompted heckling and boos from his apparently pro-Brexit audience after referencing Heath’s role in bringing the UK into the EU in the first place. Jimmy Savile was also a Satanist, he added, but this was covered up by high-profile, Satanist media editors.

Even some churches and the British government have been infiltrated by Satanists, Wong claimed, hence their reluctance to “deal with abortion”. He urged the room to challenge this. One audience member called out “Hallelujah.” At another point, attendees muttered “Amen.”

Wong did not respond to requests for comment, emailed to CBR-UK, for this article and about his claims regarding Satanism specifically.

It was a bizarre, often upsetting and deeply uncomfortable, experience to immerse myself in this scene, even for a short period. Wong’s talk invoked outrageous claims to defend aggressive and intimidating tactics to prevent women accessing legal abortions, including protest ‘prayer vigils’ outside clinics that seek to prevent women from entering them.
He explicitly justified these tactics as strategies to counter Satan’s power, claiming that “when people prayed outside clinics” it can cause abortions to fail, and so it is “not surprising that they are trying to ban prayer vigils outside clinics in the UK” via ‘buffer zones’. These zones are intended to protect women from harassment while seeking legal healthcare."

source via the archive

Satanic conspiracies and Brexiteers: inside a bizarre ‘academy’ for anti-abortion activists

This month in London, I got an up-close look at the movement which has targeted pro-choice MP Stella Creasy with protests and graphic imagery.

Sian Norris

archive.is/gTrRi

Readers might be surprised and somewhat dismayed to learn that Wong is a longtime collaborater with Maggie Oliver's new best friend, the controversial self-proclained "police whistleblower" (someone who genuine police whistleblowers regard with extreme suspicion) Jon Wedger

There are multiple extrememly long, twisty and very disturbing rabbit holes leading to and from Wedger and his activities are generating extreme concern amongst skeptical, rational minded persons and genuine whistleblowers.

Just a couple of videos to prove my claims

Jon Wedger - Satanic Ritual Abuse - Interview with Wilfred Wong 26mar2019 (

note: this is a short video - there are several long videos of Wedger and Wong available on youtube - recommended if you want to check out the utterly insane conspiracy theories that Wong and Wedger are promoting

And here is Wedger and Maggie Oliver

Both are core participants at the IICSA

I have always held Maggie Oliver in high regard and am utterly horrified that she has nailed her colours to Wedger's mast

I honestly do not know what to make of it at all.

There is more to write about Savile and his connections to promoters of conspiracy theories about satanic ritual abuse. This whole narrative has an extremely strange and disturbing twist. More to follow

And here you have it. Wrongthink at work.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3781494-Social-Worker-Probation-Officer-Reported-to-Employers-for-Supporting-JKR-Tweet?pg=1

Moving back from Manchester to Rotherham

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-51160707?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbcnews&ns_source=twitter&ocid=socialflow_twitter
Rotherham child sex abuse: Police watchdog upholds complaint

So the state's statutory duty hasn't been done and this has been admitted.

So what happens to all the other kids this happened to, or all the other issues where this is being pointing out - on this thread - where similiar is CURRENTLY happening?

amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/19/horrible-truth-is-some-female-victims-are-seen-as-less-important-than-others?CMP=share_btn_tw&__twitter_impression=true
The horrible truth is that some female victims are seen as less important than others
Jennifer Williams

My conclusion feels painfully inescapable. This set of female victims was different to the others. They were poor, sidelined and, even now, invisible. When their story was finally heard, it took this landmark independent inquiry to make their case, but the resulting attention was not what it should have been.

And

This should surely be a classic #MeToo call to arms. Scores of vulnerable girls living in the city’s care – care not necessarily being the operative word – had been identified as probable victims, then abandoned. The rape allegations were all there on the social care files. Yet it was apparently their own problem that men decades older were preying on them when they had no advice, no love, no way of knowing what was a bad shout. As one grown woman said to me last week, recalling being abused by older men while in care when she was 14 and younger: “I didn’t know abuse was wrong.”

And

It is, indeed, a story about truth, as well as power – the power of men to sexually abuse the girls they chose to exploit and of those in charge who opted to dismiss it.

It’s also about the power of society to prioritise one set of vulnerable women over another. Feminism is meant to be about defending all women and girls, especially those in a situation where they have no agency and who find themselves on the back foot, humiliated and discredited. That powerlessness is infinitely magnified if you’re a child in care.

And

One horrified former council officer sums up the way those girls should have been treated: “If that was my daughter, I’d have run barefoot down the road and dragged her out of the car.” That’s how a parent thinks. It isn’t necessarily how the state thinks. Yet these children are, and were, ours to protect.

So that is how appalled we should be by this. They’re our girls, collectively. And if modern feminism is the #MeToo movement, then it has to care as much about the women in the shadows as those in the limelight.

twitter.com/sbd1704/status/1218858829007523841?s=09
From a debate in the lords. Response from gov spokeswoman at 1.00 min +. What these PEOPLE target is vulnerability. Can't even manage to say men.