Safeguarding girls and protecting women post Jimmy Saville & #metoo

[SpareRibFem]

I don't understand, there was a lot of hand wringing after the revelations about Jimmy Saville became widely accepted. #metoo there was more handwringing about the need to listen to women when they are telling you something that makes you uncomfortable.

Saville was allowed to get away with what he didn't because he created an aura of fear and people would afraid of the backlash if they spoke up. Those that did suffered.

We were promised something like that could never happen again...

And yet now despite many women and girls saying they feel afraid and uncomfortable sharing single sex spaces with someone with a penis weren't told we're bigoted and verbally abused for saying that. Our employers are contacted and told we're bigots, we're doxxed.

And organisations like girl guides are going still further in saying it must be kept a secret when girls are being forced to sleep and change with a male bodied teen with a penis (& teen levels of hormones) and I'm not even allowed to identify what sex that male bodied teen with a penis is on a public forum

Girl Guides are taking that approach despite the knowledge that abusers use secrecy and shame to their advantage.

Just like with Saville anyone who excesses concerns is shouted down and accused of being the person in the wrong by the powerful. There is a culture of fear now. Celebrity voices in particular (thinking people like Munroe Bergdorf, Stephen Fry and long list of others) are given more weight to shout down women's concerns. Male bodied people feelings are paramount despite almost all sexual abusers being male bodied (and most of the tiny tiny number of female bodied sexual abusers working with and being in thrall to a male bodied abuser)

Did we as a society learn nothing from Saville & the multitude of other abuse scandals that women and children/girls should be listened to, that celebrities voices help hide abusers, that telling girls to keep secrets from their parents about the presence of penises in their bedrooms and changing rooms and showing them they will be blamed and abused if they transgress and tell someone creates an environment where abuse can flourish.

Powerless people were afraid of Saville. Those who gained benefit from belonging to the group colluded with him and each other.

I would also like to point out that these people have to find each other, somehow. They have to be able to recognise each other, and recruit.

One recruitment tactic they use is to gain information on an individual, and use the threat of exposure to coerce them. They might do that by using a set up, or by using another individual who has access to confidential information.
That individual may then go on to think 'in for a penny, in for a pound' and go along with the group.
They are both threatened and benefitting from membership. Its not always a simple cut and dried relationship.

Sarahjconnor You are not unhinged.
People need to be able to recognise patterns of behaviour, just as you recognise it in the way safeguarding is being dealt with at your DD's school. Unless we can do that, we cant challenge or change them.

This narrative of ‘Bad people are bad people, we didn’t know but if we had of known there would have been nothing we could have done because bad people are just so bad’ Is so incredibly pervasive it features in every single media report about every single abuser!

I was going to do one about misogyny and the Notts Police pilot - the stats are horrifying but great to see them quantified.

Good idea - they do need highlighting as much as possible. Depressingly I looked at the figures and though - hmm about right .

The school rape figures through - few years older - really did shock me.

Yes, but it is crucial IMO to recognise that it was not just a fear of Saville but a fear of the fact that organisations like the BBC and the police were actively protecting him and intimidating the people he harmed.

Absolutely. And, with regards to the safeguarding lessons learned from that, how come it's playing out all over again? The safeguarding of children trumps all other issues and agendas. My agenda, your agenda and yes, the bloody extremist trans agenda too.

Offre you're the only person focussing on whether people were afraid of Saville directly then saying we mustn't focus on that.

There was an aura of fear around flagging Saville's crimes to authorities. His behaviour was known to many and known to be wrong by many but those trying to report were dismissed and made to feel they were the people in the wrong and at times lost jobs.

I see huge similarities with what's happening now around the pushing through of gender not sex being the important factor for safeguarding and protecting women and girls. And there is fear around discussing this.

Savile, glitter and king all had the same camera man. Hall, Harris and savile were the BBC’s top kids entertainers. It was organisational culture.

They groomed those around them well - including JS using his cover of doing "good work" ie Jim'll Fix It plus his "charity work".

They groomed the BBC management - look at the people who enabled & defended him, as well as Thatcher etc

Solution: outsource program production, a policy of turn a blind eye plus wait til they die; a few token prosecutions of low hanging fruit, and lastly topped off by a few hail marys - right - that'll solve it /s

Oh and now the BBC employs a larger % of those who believe they can change sex than contemporary organisations

No spareribfem - I’m focusing on the fact that what we are meant to take from the whole thing is that he was bad and people were afraid of him and we are meant to ignore that the organisations were also bad and actively protected him in full knowledge of who he was and what he was doing. That this led people to be afraid of the organisations as well as Saville.

^ This is the important part re organisational learning and it is not being learnt in fact there is a reasonable amount of evidence to suggest it is still going on in West yorks police and LA.

They groomed the BBC management

It's more than likely the management were in on it.

bigKiteFlying

there's a thread already up I see. What were those school rape figures btw?

but those trying to report were dismissed and made to feel they were the people in the wrong

That’s my fear with the Girl Guides current stance. They are so adamant there will be no safeguarding issues with their gender from sex change - if something did happen would they pressure the girls to stay quite or make them feel wrong by complaining.

Saville was terrifying to me as a child. My family always watched the show Jimll fix it. He used to make my skin crawl. Recently a family member of a similar age has been found out as a paedophile and they made me feel the same as a child. Believe me Ofred Saville had something deeply terryfying about him, and if kids could pick it up them Im sure certain adults could too. That doesnt mean the bbc wasnt equally complicit - guilt and responsibility are not halved by being shared. And Sarah

look at the people who enabled & defended him, as well as Thatcher etc
not suprising as the likes of Peter Hayman were part of the Westminster paedophile ring.

It's more than likely the management were in on it.

They'd either be in on it or groomed - wasn't it Esther Rantzen who defended JS?

In the end, the perps get protected by the organisation because otherwise, employees become whistleblowers and we know what happens to them.... and we have a parallel situation now where people are silenced around their misgivings about the loss of single-sex spaces and /or having someone who believes they have changed sex as a boss or peer. Instead of open discussion, one side is silenced.

What's more horrifying to me is that all those f*king agencies and people supposedly paid and employed to "safeguard" children are complicit in the wholesale dereliction of their duty by putting children in harms' way by not doing any, i.e. zero, impact statements, in any organisation, of the consequences of relaxing sex-segregated spaces.

This. It's a fucking joke. It needs to change.

It’s why these things continue to happen, why we haven’t learned anything. People just don’t want to believe that JS etc could not have been so bad without all of the hidden JS in positions of authority within these organisations who remain hidden to this day.

The prospect of this is frightening.

A significant number of people are groomed by them yes, but it’s the effect of those already inside organisations that is most important. They have been creating the culture that allows and permits it for years before someone like JS comes along.

What were those school rape figures btw?
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41836303

In September 2015, a BBC investigation revealed there were 5,500 sexual offences recorded in UK schools between 2011 and 2014.
Among these were nearly 4,000 alleged physical sexual assaults and more than 600 rapes, figures from Freedom of Information requests showed.

I don't know if that's a high figure given pupil numbers I hope not - but it shocked me as I've never even considered my girls would be at risk of rape in school ffs.

Peter Hayman

a little diversion re the establishment covering up a paedophile - ignore if not interested.

It illustrates how the reputation of the party/establishment becomes more important than the crime and victims- as Baroque noted Hannah Gadsby said She explained beautifully how maintaining men's reputation is seen as more important than their victims lives.

Saville was terrifying to me as a child. My family always watched the show Jimll fix it. He used to make my skin crawl.

I didn't like him either thought him creepy- my Mum was keen on him either but we still watch his shows occasionally. People tell you it's hindsight - but I remember being bemused by the fauning over him done by the press.

I was very keen on Rolf Harris - though my Mum thought is family set up off - so was shocked by revelations about him.

I don't know if that's a high figure given pupil numbers I hope not - but it shocked me as I've never even considered my girls would be at risk of rape in school ffs.

Thx - Well if you consider these are just the tip of a huge iceberg as most assaults will go unreported - it is shocking

And, with regards to the safeguarding lessons learned from that, how come it's playing out all over again? The safeguarding of children trumps all other issues and agendas. My agenda, your agenda and yes, the bloody extremist trans agenda too.

YY and why oh why is this such a taboo subject? On here as elsewhere??