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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Have you filled in the consultation on GRA?

31 replies

FreeofPills · 08/07/2018 15:11

hi all
just filled in this in

I couldn't find a thread talking about your experience of filling it in

I found it incredibly frustrating, not least because I felt there was no clarity in terms of separating "sex" and "gender". It has clearly been designed in the most demotivating way and I thought it was much less clear than the Scottish forms.

what do others think?

I was wanting to promote it but I don't think most people will bear with it so is it better to just ask friends and families to write to the department and local MP?

OP posts:
LangCleg · 08/07/2018 15:20

No. I'm waiting for as much input and collaboration as possible before I do. There is plenty of time and I agree it's a dog's dinner so I would recommend everyone take their time and get discussing before completing.

SwearyG · 08/07/2018 15:27

I agree with Lang - there are lots of knowledgeable people beavering away at the moment, I’m going to wait to see what they say and whether it chimes with my feelings. Slow and steady wins this. I’m so wound up at the moment I don’t think I’d do myself justice.

Original poster
FreeofPills · 08/07/2018 15:30

sorry, does this mean waiting for advice on the best way to answer questions?

my feeling is the way it is set up, only the final section is useful.

OP posts:
Ereshkigal · 08/07/2018 15:35

I also think the political landscape could change by late October so I want to reflect any changes.

Ereshkigal · 08/07/2018 15:35

Slow and steady wins this. I’m so wound up at the moment I don’t think I’d do myself justice.

This too!

heresyandwitchcraft · 08/07/2018 15:37

I haven't filled it in either. I am really hoping for input from the community before I do. It would be great if we could find some female rights preserving collective guidance, similar to what Stonewall has done but from our gender-critical perspective, in order to make sure people are putting forward solid positions. I'm sure smarter people than me have excellent suggestions in how to respond to the consultation that I can consider and digest (am I wrong in thinking that Fair Play for Women are doing this?). If we offer our own analysis then am sure it will be much easier to ask relative newcomers to the issue to fill it in instead of weeding through the word-salad.

LangCleg · 08/07/2018 15:56

I also think the political landscape could change by late October so I want to reflect any changes.

Good point.

misscockerspaniel · 08/07/2018 16:00

Whoever compiled the questions (an intern working for Stonewall?) doesn't appear to know the difference between sex and gender. Are they blissfully ignorant or deliberately muddying the waters ? eg Q.20: "Currently, UK law does not recognise any gender other than male and female". Seriously? Hmm

Anyway, I am taking the slow and steady response, and have drafted a response to two of the questions.

Alternativefacts · 08/07/2018 16:26

Agree, going to take my time and work out how to have most impact.

Also want to think about how best to challenge the broader premise of the consultation.

What I mean is it feels like we are being told it’s a minor administrative issue mostly of concern to trans people ...nothing to see here women, move along,

Yet we as well as the technical and legal detail of the proposals I think they also have importnant symbolic significance too - signalling and reinforcing wider changes in society, and shoring up a view that it is no longer safe or acceptable to defend the term women as meaning biological female.

As you can probably tell still thinking this through. Hoping there will be much swapping of notes and sharing of ideas for a response on MN and other places......

Also probably more importantly is doing my bit to help get lots and lots of people responding . Hopefully all 12k + people who signed the parliamentary petition asking for a debate will be responding for starters!

OlennasWimple · 08/07/2018 17:34

I'm waiting for thoughts from various women's organisations, as well as trying to let my own thoughts percolate a bit more. I'm trying to understand the nuts and bolts of the current system some more, as the consultation is clear that that is what is up for discussion.

Wanderabout · 08/07/2018 17:38

I am waiting for Fair Play for Women guidance, plenty of time to fill it in and I want to get it right.

Wanderabout · 08/07/2018 17:40

What I mean is it feels like we are being told it’s a minor administrative issue mostly of concern to trans people ...nothing to see here women, move along,

This. The consultation feels like it was written by Stonewall.

LangCleg · 08/07/2018 17:48

All the more reason to wait and work out angles with which to respond to the various questions in order to include all relevant issues.

UglyCathKidstonBag · 08/07/2018 18:01

I’m working on it along with some colleagues.

invisibleoldwoman · 08/07/2018 18:02

I am waiting so as to get the benefit of all the wiser and more learned women here and elsewhere. I will be keeping a close eye on the Fair play for women website. fairplayforwomen.com

I have also donated to their campaign as it is not just the results of the consultation that will inform the decisions taken but changes in the political climate as previously mentioned.

I contributed to the Scottish Consultation but it was just before it closed as I had only just found out about all this and the issues. Later wished I had had more time.

I will be writing to my MP again. He didn't reply to the first letter but I think they do take notice of the volume of letters.

whitehandledkitchenknife · 08/07/2018 18:05

I'm mentally preparing answers and will set aside a few days in my summer break to set to. No rush. You can save as you go OP. There will be some good guidance out soon.

Caribou58 · 08/07/2018 18:23

I think that as well as completing the consultation, everyone should write a considered, bullet-pointed letter to their MP - but closer to the time when it comes to a vote in the Commons.

FlippinFumin · 08/07/2018 18:41

I have already written to my MP. I got a letter back on Friday. She hasn't given her own opinion, just thank you for taking the time and as requested she will pass my concerns to the Minister.

But at least I got to say my piece. And perhaps gave her food for thought with the links I included.

I too will wait for guidance on completing the consultation document, I want to get it right!

Caribou58 · 08/07/2018 18:56

I think the most worrying thing about the consultation is that although it claims the existing sex-based 'exemptions' will remain, I don't see how they can if self-id comes in. I've said so in my response.

Original poster
FreeofPills · 08/07/2018 18:57

Yes the save as you go option is available

I'm genuinely shocked at how it has nothing to do with anything though. Perhaps I should have guessed from the title. Really it's just "what do transgender people want".

OP posts:
redshoeblueshoe · 08/07/2018 19:05

Please excuse my ignorance, but how can I access it ?

Caribou58 · 08/07/2018 19:22

I'm genuinely shocked at how it has nothing to do with anything though. Perhaps I should have guessed from the title. Really it's just "what do transgender people want".

Yes.

misscockerspaniel · 08/07/2018 19:34

Caribou58 how can we trust them over sex-based exemptions when they don't appear to know that female is a sex not a gender?

Redshoesblueshoes here is the consultation.

www.gov.uk/government/consultations/reform-of-the-gender-recognition-act-2004

redshoeblueshoe · 08/07/2018 19:47

Thank you misscockerspaniel. I found the Scottish one hard, so I think I'll be looking at all available advice, thanks.

Original poster
FreeofPills · 08/07/2018 20:42

I feel let down

This consultation is absolutely nothing to do with any of the issues that concern me

OP posts: